Common sense on Jockland's gender Bill

by LoveUniHateExams 27 Replies latest social current

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  Diogenesister

  Peaceful Pete This is not about bigotry. If anything my concern is that young gay kids are being particularly targeted by this ideology...it's almost religious with its concept of a "sexed soul".

  Anyway what I wanted to point out is there is a lot of misinformation around violence and trans people.The most recent statistics demonstrate there were around 300 murders of trans people worldwide, with over half of those being in Brazil. The Brazilian statistics are not due to the victim being transgender, but rather the victim being in vulnerable situations since they are overwhelmingly sex workers. Now that is not to say that societal prejudice hasn't driven them into that sex work, but they are not more vulnerable to violence merely because they are transgender than bio women per sa.

  In fact in the UK transgender people are less likely than the general population to become a victim of homicide.In fact the rate is less than one person a year. Meanwhile three biological women every week are murdered by a man in the UK. The statistics for violent offending for trans women remain the same as their biological male counterparts, as seen by the two studies I cite in the above post.

  Of course not every trans woman is a rapist or violent.....but every trans woman is a biological male. And we don't know which biological males are safe and which are not, so the safest thing for women in some very specific situations (such as prisons, bathrooms, hospital wards, refuges etc)is segregation based on sex.
  

  It is our sexed bodies that make us as women vulnerable and has since time immemorial. This is the reason women worldwide are fighting against self identification.

  Just a week after Scotland brought in this law, a double rapist was moved to a woman's prison after he claimed to be a woman following his conviction. The scottish first minster has thankfully moved him back and is considering another similar case of a trans woman who raped a ten year old being held in the woman's prison. In fact 60% of trans women in UK prisons are sex offenders. The rate is 50% in the US. This indicates the numbers of men taking advantage of this loophole.
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  peacefulpete

  In fact 60% of trans women in UK prisons are sex offenders. The rate is 50% in the US. This indicates the numbers of men taking advantage of this loophole.

  Can't see that being evident at all. Among all prisoners in prison about 12% are in for sex offenses, the rest are overwhelmingly for violence, weapons and drug dealing. 99% of sex offenders are males. What that tells me is that trans women are not nearly as violently dangerous as men. The actual numbers of offenders as ratio of population shows the transwomen are about half as likely to be sex offenders as males.

  One BBC report says the total transwomen inmate population for sexual offenses was about 60 in 2018.

  I am in no way defending sexual offenders, I am only pointing out that your stat does not support the conclusion you made.
  
  
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  peacefulpete

  Another factor that may affect the interpretation of the stats:

  Moral Outrage Drives Biases Against Gay and Lesbian Individuals in Legal Judgments (thejuryexpert.com)

  The study gave identical scenarios of 16 year old and a 35 year old engaging in sex with 14 year old. The variable being the 14 year old was boy or girl. The results showed the gay 16 year old was treated exactly the same as a 35 year old offender while the heterosexual 16 year old was granted leniency. Subtle biases do enter into the rates of conviction. It's possible and consistent that this be true of cases involving transexuals.
  
  
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  peacefulpete

  15 Experts Debunk Right-Wing Transgender Bathroom Myth | Media Matters for America
  
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  DATA-DOG

  I disagree Pete. Sex workers are more likely to be sexually assaulted than non-sex workers. Teenagers who go to parties as opposed to staying home are more likely to be sexually assaulted.

  Every gay friend I have is extremely sexually active so they go where other sexually active people go, and alcohol and drugs follow. They have a higher likelihood of being assaulted than I do as I sit at home.

  Trans people, Drag Queens, people with peculiar sexual proclivities are more likely to gravitate towards areas and groups that share those interests and it’s proven that their chances of sexual assault are greater. It has nothing to do with being in the dark shadows where they are forced to be with “perverts.”

  What’s a pervert exactly anyway? If an adult male who enjoys/gets a sexual kick out of dressing like a female isn’t a pervert then what constitutes a pervert? Is it a Minor Attracted Person, at least until that’s “normal”??

  Let’s cut the crap and stop giving minors whose pre-frontal cortexes aren’t even formed chemicals and surgery because they “feel” like they are something else, or because they are uncomfortable in their bodies. True Gender Dysmorphia is rare, what’s happening now is a dangerous trend and time will prove that to be correct. Sadly it will be too late for some.

  DD
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  peacefulpete

  DD...We all agree that what's best to the youth should be of foremost importance. Problem is people just don't agree just what that means for an adolescent with these feelings. Most anyone agrees that ideally parents should be involved in the children's lives and oversee the internet content their children are exposed to so that transgender affirming messages (like any adult content) intended for older audiences do not contribute to confusion. The concerns about the use of hormonal therapy are a contentious matter. There likely is no one correct answer.
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  Diogenesister

  🤦🏻‍♀️Pete

  Why do people conflate being gay with the "trans" movement?

  Being same sex attracted is an unchangeable trait like your race or your sex.

  When gay people fought for equal rights, such as the right to marry, they were not infringing on anyone else's rights. In other words, in giving them equal rights there was no conflict of interest with another group.

  This is not so with gender identity. Firstly it is something no one is able to define. It is classed as a 'feeling of discomfort' around ones gender. But how can a biological male know what it feels like to be a woman?(spoiler alert: no one does. Even women don't 'feel like' women.If we didn't have bodies and were just floating heads no one would know what gender they were). Secondly it does infringe on the rights of others. On the right of women to feel comfort, safety and dignity in their intimate spaces.

  Associating the umbrella term trans with same sex attracted people is damaging to the gay community because trans people fall into the following categories:

  1. People with genuine gender disphoria. The majority of whom are overwhelmingly gay, or homosexual transexuals. Traditionally these would come under the LGBT group and I would argue they are being damaged by the following groups also classed as "trans"

  2. The 'gender queer' bunch who are mainly straight white men or bi women who want oppression points and street cred. Oh, and weirdos. Also sadly a lot of young gay women have been swept up in this having internalised homophobia. They are having damaging surgeries and going into early menopause through anabolic steroid use.

  3. Autogynophille males. Around 5% of the male population who find it erotic to dress/act/be seen as a woman. It's a fetish or paraphilia. There's nothing wrong per sa with this, if it's not used as a way of denigrating women and gaining access to their spaces.

  As to transitioning young kids, there is research showing puberty blockers lead to developmental neurological damage, poor bone density leading to osteoporosis, swelling of the brain (interracial pressure), heart problems etc Let alone the issue of consent when it comes to sterilising kids and preventing them ever having orgasm and therefore any kind of love life. The post surgical problems are probably too graphic to list on this forum but include anal fistulas.

  Edit: DD I agree. There's also a lot of conflation with body dismorphia and gender disphoria. I would argue a large minority of young girls and boys experience body dismorphia at some point. Anorexia is a form. The rate of young women attending gender clinics rocketed by 2000% in the UK over za few years. Mainly social media driven but when you hear their experiences so many have been neglected, have autism, victims of CSA etc and girls tend to internalise anger and focus on their bodies. It used to be cutting. Now it's cutting off your breasts
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  peacefulpete

  Why do people conflate being gay with the "trans" movement?

  Because in the minds of many they are all freaks, perverts and weirdos. It would be a rare individual that supports the gay community's efforts to be accepted but rejects the transexual community efforts to do the same.

  When gay people fought for equal rights, such as the right to marry, they were not infringing on anyone else's rights. In other words, in giving them equal rights there was no conflict of interest with another group.
  This is not so with gender identity. Firstly it is something no one is able to define. It is classed as a 'feeling of discomfort' around ones gender. But how can a biological male know what it feels like to be a woman?(spoiler alert: no one does. Even women don't 'feel like' women.If we didn't have bodies and were just floating heads no one would know what gender they were).

  Perhaps it would be easier if you added the word "roles" after gender. It may help you understand. As I understand it, those who feel they are pretending when they are pressured by society to project a feminine or masculine appearance and characterizations want to stop pretending. They are more comfortable projecting the opposite of what they were told they should. We used to call them tom boys or femboys, butch,poofers and pansys. They are asking us not to but just address them the way they want.

  Secondly it does infringe on the rights of others. On the right of women to feel comfort, safety and dignity in their intimate spaces.

  Both does that cut both ways.