According to YouTube Egyptian bethel closing and special pioneer's

by Crazyguy 37 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • jookbeard
    perhaps the celestial chariot is back on track with a new turbo charged fuel injected engine, the Islamic world is being prepared for a witness about the good news, than surely the end will come? what prevents them all from becoming baptised, get behind me Satan , but no Eunuchs
  • Listener

    Is the organisation becoming over reliant on the internet and producing as many translations as they can in spreading the good news? Closing down branch's like Egypt, when they have already been able to establish an underground operation without much Government interference might be a bad move for them.

    They will need a really good support network and I thought that was what the Branch's were all about as well as being 'organized'.

  • JWdaughter

    I don't know about an official branch, but they do have JWs in contact with HQ. They contacted me in Cairo when I lived there-by phone. I wasn't interested in talking, but they wanted to meet.

    I don't think JWs are that hidden. Coptic Christians are at least 10% of population and the state has funded museums in Coptic district.

    My Arabic teachers were openly Christian and taught primarily foreign Muslim students. Christians are not rare or normally singled out for special treatment in Egypt, officially or otherwise.

  • steve2

    Sounds like an honest mistake....move along nothing to see here...

    No argument from me. What's done is done and they've acknowledged the error.

    Perhaps the main learning to glean from this is Mike and Kim becoming more careful in the (at times) rush to be the first with the news and/or to broadcast it.

    Anyone who is at the forefront of presenting information has their reputation to consider.

    There are a handful of groups/people/individuals who have become known for broadcasting almost anything and everything they come across that has a whiff of expose against the organization.

    The result? Some sources attract much more skepticism than others because of either unintentionally getting something wrong or being reluctant to verify or check something out beforehand - especially if it is from a source translated from another language.

    But, yes, anyone can unintentionally get something wrong - we're human. The cheering aspect is the wilingness to admit the original message was wrong.

  • Listener

    ECOI reports this about JWs in Egypt

    Egypt: Situation of Jehovah's Witnesses, including treatment by society and the authorities and state protection available (2009-July 2013) [EGY104502.E]

    Research Directorate, Immigration and Refugee Board of Canada, Ottawa

    The US Central Intelligence Agency World Factbook indicates that 90 percent of Egyptians are Muslim, 9 percent are Coptic, and 1 percent are "other Christian" (10 July 2013). The US International Religious Freedom Report for 2012 says that there are 1,000 to 1,500 Jehovah's Witnesses in Egypt (US 20 May 2013, 3).

    Sources report that Jehovah's Witnesses were banned in Egypt in 1960 (European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses 26 Aug. 2009, 2; US Apr. 2013, 56). The US International Religious Freedom Report for 2012indicates that the government does not "recognize" Jehovah's Witnesses (US 20 May 2013, 3). Jehovah's Witnesses have attempted to gain legal recognition in court, but in December 2009, the Seventh Circuit Administrative Court denied their request for legal status (EIPR Jan. 2010, para.7; US Apr. 2013, 57) and they are appealing the verdict (ibid.). In 26 July 2013 correspondence with the Research Directorate, the General Counsel of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York, "a central group of experienced elders who oversee the worldwide congregation" (Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania n.d.), stated that Jehovah's Witnesses "do not have legal recognition to operate openly" (Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses 26 July 2013). According to the Egyptian Initiative for Personal Rights (EIPR), an "independent rights organization" established in Egypt in 2002 (n.d.), Notice no. 9/1985 issued on 21 August 1985 bans notaries from

    ... "taking any measure to notarize a marriage contract in which one or both spouses declare their Christian religion to be Jehovah's Witnesses. No measure may be taken to notarize signatures or dates on any documents issued by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Association, which is the Jehovah's Witnesses Association." (EIPR Jan. 2010, para. 7)

    In their submission to the UN Human Rights Council for the 2010 Universal Periodic Review for Egypt, the European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses said that Jehovah's Witnesses may not obtain houses of worship in Egypt (26 Aug. 2009, 2). The US Commission on International Religious Freedom's Annual Report 2013, which covers the period from 31 January 2012 to 31 January 2013, explains that "Egyptian authorities continue to conduct surveillance and sometimes impede [Jehovah's Witnesses] private worship" (US Apr. 2013, 56). However, the report also indicates that the Egyptian government allows Jehovah's Witnesses to meet in private homes in groups of less than 30 people (ibid.), and the General Counsel of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses similarly said that these private gatherings are allowed with "30 or so" Witnesses (26 July 2013).

    The EIPR indicated that, according to a 2009 press release by the National Council for Human Rights, Jehovah's Witnesses face "several problems in achieving acceptance, particularly among the Orthodox Church" (EIPRJan. 2010, para. 43). A 2010 report by The Heritage Foundation, a think tank "whose mission is to formulate and promote conservative public policies based on the principles of free enterprise, limited government, individual freedom, traditional American values, and a strong national defense" (n.d.), also states that, in Egypt,

    ... leaders of the Orthodox Church have been willing to use the state's power to fight challenges from other Christian traditions. Historically, Protestant mainstream churches were viewed as the enemy. Currently, groups such as Jehovah's Witnesses, the Seventh Day Adventists, and the Mormons pose a threat to the traditional church. (9 Nov. 2010, 5-6)

    The EIPR indicates Pope Shenouda, patriarch of the Holy See of St. Mark of Orthodox Copts, described Jehovah's Witnesses as a "set of heresies and perversions of the Book" (EIPR Jan. 2010, para. 7). The EIPR added that, according to members of the European delegation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, "members are considered Zionists and violators of human rights principles, which has obstructed the exercise of their basic rights" (ibid.).

    The General Counsel of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses stated that "the current situation of Jehovah's Witnesses in Egypt is stable" (Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses 26 July 2013). He added that, in the past, Jehovah's Witnesses have been subject to "beatings and torture as recently as five to seven years ago, loss of employment, threats and harassment, deportations, and other difficulties at the hands of authorities" (ibid.). However, he said that "there have been no recent incidents of violence against Witnesses since the time of the revolution" (ibid.). The General Counsel of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses further explained that, in his view, the military "has had no issue with Jehovah's Witnesses .... it has been the way in Egypt for many years that the police closely scrutinize most any group of people, but their monitoring of Witnesses is now unthreatening" (26 July 2013). Corroboration could not be found among the sources consulted by the Research Directorate within the time constraints of this Response.

    This Response was prepared after researching publicly accessible information currently available to the Research Directorate within time constraints. This Response is not, and does not purport to be, conclusive as to the merit of any particular claim for refugee protection. Please find below the list of sources consulted in researching this Information Request.

  • JWdaughter
    Hey, JWs have more rights in Egypt today than the Muslim brotherhood does.
  • Listener

    "There are small numbers of Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, but the Government does not recognize either group.....The Government banned Jehovah's Witnesses in 1960 since which time it has, to varying degrees, subjected them to harassment and surveillance. The Witnesses were legally registered in Cairo in 1951 and Alexandria in 1956 and their presence in the country dates to the 1930s. The Government attributes its refusal to grant the Jehovah's Witnesses registration to the opposition of the Coptic Orthodox Church, which has condemned the group as heretical, as well as to its lingering Nasser-era suspicion of links between Witnesses and the State of Israel."

    The above is a summary from Wikipedia regarding the position of JWs in Egypt.

    It is probably the JWs earlier teachings when Russell taught of a restoration of the physical/earthly Israel that has caused this opposition that they still experience.


    One of the stresses you have when you run a blog / website [imho] is that you feel impelled to have to "feed" new info into it especially when you have a "following" -

    I run a blog related to ESL /TEFL English teaching and its bloody exhausting trying to keep up with feeding in new information all the time - and then you still have to follow up with respondents.

    So the danger of going after every little new "nugget' of info is there - Also trying to be "first" with the Breaking Story may prove a problem -

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