2020’s are already a Train Wreck for JW ORG

by Reservations 24 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Anony Mous
    Anony Mous

    I haven’t heard about the disagreement, can someone do a quick side-by-side comparison so I don’t have to sit through hours of boring talks.

    The question is whether anyone in the cult even picks up on some of these things. The majority of people couldn’t even remember the noo light that was announced every year just a week after the large meetings, they had to be repeated several times in the publications before people slowly adapted to new ways of thinking.

    The mind-numbing nature of the meetings just has the majority of people on auto-pilot, and after a while they start parroting entirely new viewpoints without ever acknowledging they’ve changed what they are talking about radically, with some swearing they’ve believed the same since the 70s

  • slimboyfat

    A few points:

    1. JWs had a decline in 2020 because they shut down for months due to the pandemic. Britain had the lowest memorial attendance in 2020 since 1988! But they bounced back in 2021 and reported the highest attendance ever by a substantial margin. Publisher numbers will probably bounce back too. I expect other countries will be similar, though less dramatic than Britain, because it was particularly badly hit by pandemic restrictions because initially letter writing was not sanctioned.

    My prediction would be for around 2% growth worldwide in average publishers this year, and 4% growth in Britain in particular. I guess we’ll find out within the next couple of weeks, and I’ll bump this thread then either way!

    2. From my observation a lot of inactive JW have returned to meetings on Zoom (probably about 10 in the local congregation) plus a couple of new people have attended as a result of letters. Attendance overall is up compared with the beginning of the pandemic.

    3. A lot of old ones have died during the pandemic from coronavirus and other illnesses (vaccines played a part?) but even taking that into account, attendances overall are up.

    4. JWs are not the only religion that has members who don’t believe in it. Every religion has this. Some probably more than JWs because the conditioning it less extensive. Anglican churches, for example, are famous for having nonbelievers among clergy as well as ordinary members, to the extent that in popular culture the non believing minister is a running joke. The existence of non believing JWs is not surprising or unique and no reason to downgrade their numbers unless you want to do the same with every other group.

    5. I agree JWs are likely to be significantly different in 2030 than they are today, and probably in ways that will surprise us. They have certainly changed a lot in the past 10 years. Plus the world and society itself is changing so rapidly that everything, including JWs will have to change.

    6. I’ve not seen the clip with Morris contradicting Lett, so I am curious to go and try to find it. It would be highly significant if Governing Body members are openly disagreeing with each other. It happened famously in the 1970s when Fred Franz denounced the new Governing Body arrangement as “the tail wagging the dog”. In that case serious power dynamics were at stake in the point being made.

    7. I’ve seen engagement with other religious groups plummet and many churches close during the pandemic while JWs have managed to keep their numbers steady.

    8. Everything I’ve seen indicates Omicron will bring an end to the pandemic, because it is milder and more transmissible. How will JWs adapt to life back inside KHs and regular preaching? That’s the interesting question for 2022, I reckon. They’ve had a pretty good pandemic compared with other groups. Will they have a successful post pandemic?

  • Reservations

    I think it gives the PIMOs something substantial to bring up to their spouses/friends/family.

    A lot of things can not be brought up, child abuse allegations for example, without getting it shut down by the true believers, or without some suspicion as to where the info was found out.

    Literally Lett said last year in the Covid update, that we are in the last day of the last days. and already Morris is critical of it. And the videos are so easy to find.

    What it does is give PIMOs an opportunity to say “I’ll take everything they say with a punch of salt”, because what’s written or said is changed so quickly.

    It’s quite hard to explain the nuance without seeing both videos.

  • LongHairGal


    Yes, I’m sure it’s true that other religions also have people among them who may not truly ‘believe’. But, I do not believe it’s quite the same comparison to Witnesses who do not truly believe.

    These people in other religions still attend or associate because some aspect is desirable to them. They can come and go and not give it a second thought..It is NOT the same with JWs because they are Compelled to ‘fake it’ because of the shunning, losing family and possible loss of business connections and in some cases employment - even if they are marginal (as I was but I didn’t need these idiots since I had a full-time job). JWs are under duress in a way. There are very real financial and other life consequences for them!

    Also, people in other religions probably have worldly employment and can navigate their way through society. In contrast, not every JW can - especially if born-in. So, they Must make it look good and be a halfway decent actor.

    Many JWs are waiting for the minute they can disappear or ‘Fade’ as it is known - in some cases changing phone numbers and not answering their doors!

  • nowwhat?

    I've known a couple long term df'd that got reinstated. But I'd bet good money it was to get back in with the family. Look how easy it is now. Just turn on the zoom meeting for 6 months or so and no jumping through hoops while getting treated like shit at the kingdom hall. So if you factor this in world wide. You might see a slight increase.

  • zachias

    Hi to you all. what a great posting.and,

    consider the value of any wt figures..

    "Lies damned lies and statistics"....


    and as the social chaos in the US winds ever tighter around the masses the wt will reflect this in their pronouncements. Keep in mind folks that the wt in its entirety by thought by every culture is first and foremost parochial ..American. If folks in the us cant see this there are nations around the world who can.

    So I fear that should the wts/gb suddenly be "inspired" to call on all jw to do a death to the masses campaign it will be seen in the US as another weirdo spin off from the current chaos happening there. In other countries it might not be seen so charitably and the wt might get the martyrs they seem to want periodically.

  • slimboyfat

    LongHairGal there are many people who attend religious services because they don’t want to lose friends or family, Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have a monopoly on that. Some groups are stricter than Jehovah’s Witnesses about cutting off contact with former members. (Plymouth Brethren, Iglesia ni Cristo, Scientology)

    Plus practices don’t need to be as strict as JWs to have the effect of retaining nominal members, quite the reverse, because the costs of membership are lower in other churches and social ties are more easily maintained by nominal membership. It’s harder for a Jehovah’s Witness to keep up the pretence of belief and be counted as a member because they actually have to go out and preach to be counted. It’s relatively easy to keep membership of a liberal church, and attend occasionally, and many people do even when they don’t believe any more. So the membership figures of liberal churches are more inflated by nominal members than JW numbers.

    For example the Church of Scotland has 300,000 members, but fewer than half that attended church services (prepandemic) and a proportion of those who attend liberal churches do so for social reasons. See for example the book “Outside Verdict: An Old Kirk in a New Scotland” by Harry Reid (which is a sympathetic account of the church) that describes those who retain church membership for social reasons.

    There are plenty of financial reasons for remaining in other churches too, in fact more so than JWs, in churches where paid ministry is the norm. For many religions money is a bigger factor keeping people involved in the church as employees and as members with perks.

  • joe134cd

    I have demonstrated in the past that there are other religious groups that are doing a lot worse than the JWs. For example of the 16 million LDS members the church claims. The actual number who regularly attend could be as low as 3 million. Of the 3 million world wide, those that believe it enough to hold a temple recommend card could be as few as 1.5 million. Even with a jw activity, and belief, rate of 50% they would way out strip the Mormon church. I actually think in the present climate the JWs have done remarkably well.

  • asp59

    When there's a Big world problems ex jws or does inactive run back to safety of org. That haven't happened this time. That's a big problem for org if they can't control the members using fear anymore. The other situation is the pimos. Looking around reddit and stuff, seems an incredible number of jws don't believe the GB version anymore. They been selling out buildings for years, and still they don't have money to build new media center. Shows lack of funds. The most active jws are dying out ( older ones). There's gonna be a Big issue now with returning to khs or going online 100 hundred percent. They can not have 25-30% filled congregations. Who is gonna pay the rent? If they go online, there's the information about jw history org don't want members too see. Oh they are in a world of problems. They corned them self in. With ever road they take now it's gonna be a problematic one.

  • FFGhost

    I haven't yet seen the AGM videos, but it seems very odd timing to present a message of "Armageddon ain't coming very soon now after all".

    JWs are all hepped up with the COVID pandemic. A lot ( A LOT) of JWs have been convinced that the pandemic will lead directly into the "great tribulation".

    Attendance at meetings (via Zoom) is easier than ever, and "record numbers" are attending (granted, with cameras off and not paying attention, but still, it looks impressive). There is a peak of pioneers now (of course, there is no 'hour requirement' so again, it's easier than ever, but still, it looks impressive).

    I.e., things "look impressive" to the naked eye, but it's essentially a façade.

    What happens when life returns to "normal", which is likely on the horizon? Meetings now in person at the KH, rather than Zoom. Field service at actual doors, not chatting with your friends on Zoom in your bathrobe. Actual hour requirements for pioneers, not "just do what you can".

    It's a shock to the system. JWs, after what will be 2+ years of "Zoom life", suddenly get a harsh reminder of the JW "hamster wheel" - the weekly grind of dress up, travel to the meetings, sit and listen to boring talks, travel home....dress up, travel to meeting for field service, trudge door to door, travel home.....wash, rinse repeat...next week....and the next week....and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...and the next week...

    Add to that now Morris' thoughts that "oh we're not really so close to the GT after all".

    The prospect of years....decades....many decades....of trudge, trudge, trudge.....Armageddon isn't coming soon to rescue us.....after 2+ years of no in person meetings, assemblies, conventions, no door to door....

    It's nuts. Why give this message now? Why not just keep presenting the "last seconds of the last minutes of the last days" message? It seems like it would be the only way to keep a modicum of enthusiasm when "Zoom life" ends.

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