Yes.
From The Daughters of Isabella (A Catholic women's group) to Christian Science, every major denomination has used the cross and crown. Freemasonry borrowed this symbol from Christianity and not the other way around.
Russell's aleged freemasonry on JWfacts.com
by NikL 67 Replies latest jw friends
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Finkelstein
That may be true but did he obtain that image from an association with a Baptist church ? probably not.
Did he obtain that image from an association from a Freemason Hall probably so.
Likewise did he obtain that Knights Templar image used on the top right corner of Zion's Watchtower from a Baptist Church ? Probably not .
Did he obtain that image from a association with the Freemasons ? propbly so
Let it be understood that Russell may not have been a registered Freemason but he did plagiarize and use wherever he thought that would gravitate public interest and support to this publications, The Watchtower or otherwise.
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sparky1
Sorry Finkelstein.............Russell was raised a Presbyterian and later joined the Congregational Church. Both have used the 'Cross and Crown' logo and it would seem more logical that he would have retained this tradition himself and carried it forth to the new religion that he was forming.
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Simon
I think it's just symbolism as when graphic designers borrow / steal things today. Some things are in vogue within certain segments.
If you wanted to put out something that was all British / nationalistic you'd have the george cross, a shield, maybe a lion etc... because that is always used in the context and it does the "associate" in your mind (why imagery is powerful).
So someone creating a magazine targeting people who tend to follow and believe a certain group uses the imagery that trigger the responses.
On their own they don't prove membership of something, just use of the images. The burial plot is more convincing as proof of some link IMO.
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vienne
Finkle, you find it probable because you wish it to be so, not on any evidence. The cross and crown feature on Zion's Watch Tower's later issues was a common and commercially produced type fixture [matrix], used on 'Christian' publications.
Here is what Schulz and I say in Separate Identity, volume 1:
Symbolisms
Decorative motifs found on Watch Tower publications are interpreted as Masonic. From an early date a cross and crown design appeared on Zion’s Watch Tower’s front cover. Because it was also used on Masonic paraphernalia, notably on the ceremonial swords, the presumption is that Russell borrowed from Masonic forms, covertly announcing to all “in the know” his Masonic connections. The logic flaws behind this reasoning are astounding.
Cross and Crown
Masonic use of the cross and crown symbolism derives from Christian usage. The symbolism became popular in the 17th Century at least in Christian phraseology. In 1621, Francis Quarles wrote the poem Hadassa: The History of Queene Ester. It contains this couplet:
The way to bliss lies not on beds of down,
And he that has no cross deserves no crown.
There is a high probability that William Penn took the title of his famous essay No Cross, No Crown from Quarles’ poem. From Penn and others who wrote similarly, the cross and crown coupling became popular. For instance, Matthew Henry observed in his Exposition of the Old and New Testaments (published in several volumes between 1708 and 1710): “We only bear the cross for a while, but we shall wear the crown to eternity.”
By mid-19th Century the phrase, “we must all bear the cross before we can wear the crown” had become common, finding its way into poems, homelies, sermons and common speech. Russell would have heard it repeated ad nausium. The cross and crown was found as an embroidery pattern; it found a place on Sunday school pins, on convention ribbons, and on jewelry, and this long before it appeared on the Watch Tower’s front cover or on a Masonic sword. The cross and crown symbol found on The Watch Tower in the early 1890s is a combination of type matrixes commonly found in a printers type drawer. The revised version from the later 1890s is a single type face, also common in usage.
[1] See his commentary on James in any complete edition. He made the comment when considering James chapter one.
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Finkelstein
Sorry Finkelstein.............Russell was raised a Presbyterian and later joined the Congregational Church..
Fine and as to the Knights Templar symbol , where did he derive that from ?
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vienne
We should note that plagiarize has a very specific meaning. Holding doctrines similar to or the same as others is not plagiarism. Russell drew from a very narrow set of doctrines, those held by the Age-to-Come/One Faith movement as represented by The Restitution, a religious newspaper. Some claim he was a closet Adventist. He wasn't. None of his doctrine came from Adventism, and all Adventist bodies opposed him.
He read widely from the religious press, often quoting from or mentioning the books and periodicals he read. But he had a narrow doctrinal set, not really meant to please others. If he had plagiarized from others to draw adherents, he would have taught popular doctrine. He did not.
Nothing he taught is original. But why would we expect it to be? He sought the 'old theology,' original New Testament doctrine. He did not seek something novel as did Mary Baker Eddy.
Again, from our book:
Russell saw himself as a kind of cut-and-paste Bible Student, reassembling from scattered sources the Old Theology. Russell said as much in 1889:
We must disclaim any credit even for the finding and rearrangement of the jewels of truth. “It is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes.” The writer wholly disclaims superior ability or qualification for the reorganization of the truth in its present solidarity. As the time had come for the bringing together of the scattered thoughts of past centuries in the marvelous inventions of our day, – so the time had come for the bringing together of the fragmentary hopes and promises of God’s Word scattered through Christendom. To deny that the Lord has simply “poured out” this harvest time blessing of “present truth” in his own due time and in his own way, would be as wrong as to claim it as of our own invention. … It came gradually, silently, as comes the morning dawn: the only effort necessary was to keep awake and face in the right direction. And the greatest aid in so doing was the effort put forth to awaken others of the “household of faith” and point them to the light and in turn to urge upon them the necessity for serving also, if they would overcome the lethargic “spirit of the world,” and be ready to go in to the marriage of the Lamb.[1]
[1] C. T. Russell: Views from the Watch Tower, Zion’s Watch Tower, April 15, 1899, page 87.
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vienne
Knights Templar and Masons borrowed from Christian Symbolism, not the other way around.
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Finkelstein
Knights Templar and Masons borrowed from Christian Symbolism, not the other way around.
Of course that is not of debate, Freemasonry is inherently Judaeo Christian.
The debate is about from where and from whom did Russell derive "SOME" of his theological ideas or borrowed symbolism.
Seems to be deliberate dismissive about Russell obtaining some theological influence from the Freemason Organization.
Maybe we should adhere to some more intellectual honesty instead biased blindness ?
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sparky1
"There is no debate or question concerning Russell's being influenced by some of the unique Freemason theological ideas of which Pyramidolgy stems from"- Finkelstein
Actually this too is open to debate. Vienne rightly points to Smyth and Seiss as the most influential writers that influenced Pastor Russell's interest in pyramidology. However, Russell's 'theological' interest in the Great Pyramid may have been 'refined' by another minor thinker involved in the 'pyramid' discussion:
" A few year's after Prof. Smyth's return, came the suggestion that the Great Pyramid is Jehovah's "Witness", and that it is as important a witness to divine truth as to natural science. This was a new thought to Prof. Smyth, as well as to others. The suggestion came from a young Scotsman, Robert Menzies, who, when studying the scientific teachings of the Great Pyramid, discovered that prophetic and chronological teachings co-exist in it." - THY KINGDOM COME 1908 edition STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTURES pg 320 paragraph 1 (italics mine)
"In a letter to Prof. Smyth, Mr. Robert Menzies, the young Scotsman who first suggested the religious or Messianic feature of the Great Pyramids teaching,......"- THY KINGDOM COME 1908 edition STUDIES IN THE SCRIPTUES pg 337 paragraph 1 (italics mine)
These quotes seem to indicate the Russell admits that he got his religious or theological inspiration for his own brand of pyramid quackery not from Freemasonry but from a gentleman named Robert Menzies.