Early Hominem. Neanderthals. Evolution.

by solameguy12 49 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    peacefulpete, the idea that Bonobos have sometimes mated with chimpanzees (Pan troglodytes) in the modern era and produced hybrid offspring from such mating, is news to me. [Perhaps you only mean it happened long ago, instead of also in modern times.] I hadn't known such happened. After reading your claim I found an article at http://www.macroevolution.net/bonobo-chimpanzee-hybrids.html which confirms that it happened also in modern times. It says the following.

    "In 1979, a circus director in France bought what he believed to be a male chimpanzee. It performed in acts and regularly mated with two female chimpanzees. This male ape, however, turned out to be a bonobo. Between 1991 and 2000, seven bonobo-chimpanzee hybrids were produced from these matings, most or all of which survived. By 2000, the oldest was working in the circus act in place of his retired father."

    I notice that https://www.newscientist.com/article/2110682-chimps-and-bonobos-interbred-and-exchanged-genes/ says the following.

    "Chimpanzees and their relatives bonobos are closer than we thought. Bonobos seem to have donated genes to chimps at least twice in the roughly two million years since they last shared an ancestor.

    The two closely related apes have occasionally interbred in captivity, and bonobos are renowned for their free and easy sex life. But the finding that they interbred in the wild was unexpected."

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The genomic evidence also confirmed this happened occasionally in the distant past in a similar way as the Sapien/Neand. genomics seems to.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    When I realized that I didn't believe in god, I finally allowed myself to see what the 'other side' had to say about issues like evolution. Two things surprised me: how poorly I (who fancied himself a lover of science and biology) understood evolution, and how dishonest apologist institutes and authors had been when they discussed it.

    I know that YouTube channels like AronRa and Gutsick Gibbon have covered a substantial number of deliberate out-of-context quotes and deceptively-edited videos to demonstrate that the claims about scientific malfeasance are made up. I can only imagine how bad the cognitive dissonance would have been if I'd seen these while I still was a believer.

    And I can't help but think that many of the major apologists and apologetic websites must realize that they're not just wrong, but deceiving people. I rejected evolution and embraced creation out of ignorance, because I refused to listen to any counter-information out of fear that it would lead me astray. But these people and sites have to know! They're actually going through the data and information. The out-of-context quotes and video edits are not an innocent mistake. That still leaves me dumbfounded.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Yup.

    Once more, for the newbies, lurkers, and trolls…

    …if you have to cheat to defend your beliefs, your beliefs don’t deserve to be defended.

  • truth_b_known
  • Earnest
    Earnest

    truth_b_known, interesting video although I don't quite understand why he thinks homo naledi must have caused the soot in the cave. Could it not have been later? I await with interest the dating of the soot and a peer-reviewed article on the find.

    You can see Lee Berger's announcement of this find here and read other articles about it here and here.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    "The out-of-context quotes and video edits are not an innocent mistake. That still leaves me dumbfounded"

    I was already well out, no chance of going back, but not a long time out, when I first became aware of the totally dishonest, deliberate, out of context quotes and editing. These saddened me, as before that time I thought they may have been basically honest, but very misguided, yup, I was still very naive ! But this was blatant telling of whopping LIES by telling less than half the truth etc.

    If they had "the truth" there would be no need to Lie through their teeth, no need to use loaded language, and no need to control the flow of information to the J.W Rank and File, but they always have, done all of that, and now it is in a much bigger way.

    Why they fight against the Mountain of Evidence for Evolution by Natural Selection is because of their abysmally ignorant, and frankly very silly desire to take as much of the Bible as literal as they dare get away with.

    Many Mainstream Christians maintain their faith, alongside an honest recognition of Scientific truths.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot
    Phizzy - “…if they had ‘the truth’ there would be no need to lie through their teeth, no need to use loaded language, and no need to control the flow of information…”

    This realization was, in fact, one of the first little wake-up moments for a lot of us, I suspect.

    If you’re dishonest in your efforts to claim the moral high ground, you forfeit the moral high ground.

  • BoogerMan
    BoogerMan

    @ solameguy12 - "But there are just so many different hominids that over time look more and more like humans."

    So true!! I used to work with some in a factory years ago. I hope they're still evolving.

  • Rivergang
    Rivergang

    Like some people evolved from apes.

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