WoMD ... so where are they?

by Simon 865 Replies latest social current

  • Jayson
    Jayson
    If we can give the UN 12 years, why can't we give the US and Britian more than 12 weeks?

    Thi here I will say that is too simple. The UN inspectors did a great job after the war in 91. (Better than bombs) But, then Saddam went back to work in the WMD department. And, then he refused inspectors for years. It was not until the US started building troops that the UN was allowed back into the country. Blix in my opinion had an impossible job. However, Saddam made it so, not Bush.

    It was take out the regime now or loose all credibility in the region forever. Also after 91' the US and UK never left. How come nobody who claims all of what I say is made of straw never talks about the Iraqi violations of the UN resoluitons? (Oh sure make it about Israel after all they both start with "I" don't they?)

  • rem
    rem

    Dubla,

    the inspectors were not sent to iraq to search for weapons of mass destruction, they were sent there to oversee the disarming of iraq. this should take MUCH, MUCH less time than actually scouring the countryside to search for hidden weapons. HUGE difference indeed.

    This point merits repeating. The whole comparison between the inspection time before the war and the search for WMD after the war is a complete non sequiter. The two objectives were completely different. There is no comparison.

    rem

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Dubla,

    Here is the article from the Washington Post dated February 8, 2003. My mistake though it was a students, 12 year old Academic Paper. I was being a bit fascias but point I am making here is if the British and American administration deceived us on this point, what else have they deceived us on?

    Will

    Blair Acknowledges Flaws in Iraq Dossier Britain Took Some Material That Powell Cited at U.N. From 12-Year-Old Academic Papers

    By Glenn FrankelWashington Post Foreign Service
    Saturday, February 8, 2003; Page A15

    LONDON, Feb. 7 -- Prime Minister Tony Blair's official spokesman today conceded that his office copied material from three academic papers into special intelligence dossier on Iraq that was released to the public this week. The spokesman said the information was used without attribution but insisted it was accurate.

    Critics of the government began attacking the dossier's credibility after British television news reported that sections of something the government had presented as a compendium of its own material, including sensitive spy data, were actually taken from publicly available academic papers.

    The dossier was cited and praised by U.S. Secretary of State Colin L. Powell during his presentation on Iraq to the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday. "It's embarrassing for the prime minister and for poor old Colin Powell," said Charles Heyman, editor of Jane's World Armies. The controversy has compounded Blair's difficulties in rallying a skeptical British public behind his strong support for the United States and possible military action in Iraq. While no opinion polls have yet been reported, editorials and politicians outside Blair's circle have generally discounted Powell's U.N. address and a public relations campaign that Blair mounted this week.

    The incident also opened a rare window on what seems to be a dispute about Iraq between the prime minister's office and British intelligence services. The spy agencies have been much more cautious than Blair in their assessment of Iraq's development of weapons of mass destruction and links with the al Qaeda terror network.

    The dossier "was clearly prepared by someone in Downing Street and it's obviously part of the prime minister's propaganda campaign," said Heyman. "The intelligence services were not involved -- I've had two people phoning me today to say, 'Look, we had nothing to with it.'"

    The 19-page dossier, entitled "Iraq -- Its Infrastructure of Concealment, Deception and Intimidation," was based on "a number of sources, including intelligence material," its introduction says. The report makes a detailed case that Iraq has tried to conceal its weapons programs from U.N. inspectors. The report also charts the structure of Iraq's major intelligence organizations.

    It used, without credit, excerpts from a 12-year-old paper on the buildup to the 1991 Persian Gulf War written by California graduate student Ibrahim Marashi and published in the Middle East Review of International Affairs. The dossier even repeated the paper's typographical errors.

    Other sections were copied from Jane's Intelligence Review, and from an article last fall by Cambridge University lecturer Glen Rangwala in the Middle East Review of International Affairs. Rangwala told the Reuters news agency he calculated that 11 of the dossier's 19 pages were "taken wholesale from academic papers."

    A Downing Street spokesman who briefed reporters today, and who insisted on anonymity, said the dossier's purpose was to "show people not only the kind of regime we were dealing with but also how Saddam Hussein had pursued a policy of deliberate deception."

    The spokesman said the first and third sections of the document were based largely on intelligence material, while the second was based in part on Marashi's work, "which, in retrospect, we should have acknowledged."

    "The fact that we had used some of his work did not throw into question the accuracy of the document as a whole," the spokesman said. He did not discuss the other two articles.

    "This is the intelligence equivalent of being caught stealing the spoons," Menzies Campbell, a member of Parliament, told the BBC today. He is foreign affairs spokesman for the Liberal Democrat Party. "The dossier may not amount to much, but this is a considerable embarrassment for a government trying still to make a case for war."

    In another apparent example of feuding between Downing Street and the British intelligence world, sources in the Defense Ministry earlier this week leaked to the BBC a classified assessment by a British intelligence agency that there were no current links between Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's government and al Qaeda. The report appeared to contradict Blair's claims that Baghdad was giving shelter to al Qaeda operatives.

    Speaking with a BBC interviewer Thursday evening, Blair acknowledged the defense intelligence report's conclusion that Iraq, a secular Arab nationalist state, and al Qaeda, an Islamic fundamentalist movement, were not linked.

    © 2003 The Washington Post Company http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A42276-2003Feb7¬Found=true
  • William Penwell
  • dubla
    dubla

    william-

    Here is the article from the Washington Post dated February 8, 2003. My mistake though it was a students, 12 year old Academic Paper.

    the article you provided only further backed up my point, which is: that dossier did not come from the u.s. or bush in any way shape or form. thank you for further proving my point.

    I was being a bit fascias but point I am making here is if the British and American administration deceived us on this point

    the british administration, yes, the american administration, no. is this a hard concept for you to swallow? you can keep saying that bush decieved us with this info, but it wont make it so. the bush administration mistakenly gave credibility to the british report, and that was the ONLY way they were involved in it at all.

    aa

  • Realist
    Realist

    dubla,

    thats true....but the paper on the uranium deal stems from the CIA! and that was at least as lousy as the stuff that the MI6 supplied!

  • dubla
    dubla

    realist-

    thats true....

    so now you say its true that none of the student paper information came from the u.s.? im confused.....previously you had said:

    powells claim that there are WMD in iraq would gain some credibility. certainly not much but a little. as to his reposrt...as you know part of it was debunked as 12 year old student paper already the very next day!

    was this just another misinformed statement by you? NONE of powells report came from that student paper....ZERO. this is the type of fabrication im talking about. powell mistakenly gave praise to the report, thats the extent of it......a far cry from having ANY part of his report "debunked as a 12 year old student paper".

    but the paper on the uranium deal stems from the CIA! and that was at least as lousy as the stuff that the MI6 supplied!

    honestly im not familiar with the paper youre talking about......mustve missed that one. give me some links and ill be happy to read about it.

    aa

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    That’s fine if you want to accept Bush's rational for going to war. Who's going to end up paying for this imperialistic expansionism? Just remember this when there is no money left for much needed programs like social security or medical care etc.

    Will

  • dubla
    dubla

    william-

    That’s fine if you want to accept Bush's rational for going to war. Who's going to end up paying for this imperialistic expansionism? Just remember this when there is no money left for much needed programs like social security or medical care etc.

    what does that have to do with our discussion about the 12 year old student report? changing the subject to try and gloss over your fabrications?

    aa

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    Dubla,

    Your the one that is buying all the lie's not me. Like I said previously, if Bush or Blair have been caught lying on this point, Why should we believe them on anything else they are telling us?

    Will

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