Catholic madly in love with a JW (cont'd)
Those of you who read my last post, about two weeks ago, know I'm in a dilemma. I did not run like some posts suggested. I truly believe I found my soulmate. Yes she is being shunned by family and friends and she's scared to lose everything to start a life with me. Her husband originally filed for divorce and withdrew the papers. I asked why don't you fill and she said she can't because she has no grounds to file. I guess irreconcilable differences doesn't count in the eyes of JW. As far as I'm concerned he constantly verbally abuses her, plus he has an app that sees all her calls, texts and emails. This is a form of domestic abuse. Yes she did have an affair with me, but yet he chooses to stay and the ministers and congregation want to keep them together. My main question is what advise can I give her that would give her JW grounds to get divorced with hopefully no repercussions.
My main question is what advise can I give her that would give her JW grounds to get divorced with hopefully no repercussions.
There is no ground for her under the described circumstances
The only way a JW can divorce is if their partner has committed adultery. For JWs, it's called scriptural divorce. You cannot ask for a divorce if you're the guilty party. She can divorce in a court of law but the JW won't recognize it.
You mention she is being shunned. Has she been disfellowshipped? If not, I doubt she is being shunned.
It takes years if not decades to break free of the JW's cult mind control. Get ready for the roller coaster ride and the mind games. Even if she leaves to be with you, the guilt will continue and she will be continuously torn inside. JWs believe the end is just around the corner and if she's not a witness when that comes she's dead meat. It takes years to get rid of that mindset and it's very strong. You have no idea the fear it creates. There's always going to be that back and forth between her trying to be saved and destruction. She might be able to push it in the back of her mind for some periods but the guilt and fear eventually come back. If she leaves, get her into therapy ASAP.
I've done some crazy things because of love, so I can empathize with you. Good luck.
Oh, and one more thing. JWs are trained to be very good liars so watch yourself.
That's too bad. I am catholic and Husband is born in, unbaptized, inactive for 30 years, that decided to go back a several years ago, then eventually stopped progress to baptism and studies for a while because of the horrible effect it had on his personality, and our marriage. His personality changes- his continual lies, his arrogance, his demands, and his abuse almost ended the marriage.
The residuals are still very difficult and we still may not make it.
Our daughter is what keeps me from asking him to move out. My emotions have been raw for quite a while. I have given up more than once only to just give it one more try..He can not figure out what he wants from our marriage, from me, and how he plans to be involved in the future of our family ever since his brief re-indoctrination episode. He just sinks into deep depressions, fails to bring in sufficient income, gets angry and verbally abusive when it is brought up for constructive discussion to change it, fails to keep track of his spending, fails to take an interest anymore in our daughter's education etc. ( However, he is loving to her and she needs her daddy, which is why I just keep trying.) If it were not for our daughter I would have told him years ago to move out, find out what it is he wants, and come back to me only if he wants to be a part of a respectful partnership marriage, not live some double life with a "holier than thou" attitude.
Your girlfriend is lying to herself, to her family, or her husband with an affair. She stays with this abusive husband instead of reporting him. Will she see seek professional therapy? If not, she is not going to get away from this, she is an emotional time bomb. If she seeks out the elders for advice she will NEVER get away from this. She wants to remain a JW yet has an affair? She is a train wreck. She is what so many JW call living a double life. It is so much more common that I had ever known when I first began researching the JW. She is a slave to the cult think which means this will NOT GO AWAY. You might think love will overcome that, but nothing will overcome it unless she decides it for herself to break the hold of this cult over her very thoughts.. No wishful thinking or actions from you will change her mind. She will more than likely continue living a double life regardless of who she is living with. She has learned this is the way behave. She has learned how to lie and not feel a bit of guilt. It is part of her emotional cult training.
I know this. My husband lies all the time, mostly over minor insignificant things, but it is a HABIT and it spills into important things. Yet, he has no clue he is supposed to feel guilty or wrong about this, and stop dong it. That it is damaging my trust, our relationship, our marriage. He thinks anything to get him out of having to defend ( or even just share) what he is thinking, doing, or feeling is ok.
If you stay with her be prepared to be viewed as the enemy if she ever seeks to go back "inside" to the JW.
I am sorry to be harsh, but the Watchtower IS HARSH. The indoctrination IS HARSH. The rules inflicted on the embers to shun their family IS HARSH.
You are walking into an emotional land mine. Just do it with open eyes. Don't kid yourself. Make sure you are thoroughly educated on this cults actual teachings and workings.
Your only hope of a happy life together would be if she walked away from her life and you both started afresh somewhere else. But, she would still need a few years of counselling and deprograming to get her thinking straight and all the post-cult emotions out of her system.
Otherwise expect a long life of tiptoeing around her JW sensitivites and never truly being as close or as happy as you could be if it weren't for her religion.
Some other options to consider (Not that they are any better than the ones brought up so far. In fact, these are challenging to carry out, and may not be recommended by experts.)
1. She can submit -leave- a note to her husband or elders stating that she has left the state with someone of the opposite sex without further disclosing details. She will perhaps be disfellowshipped at once, and her husband may proceed filing for divorce. Further consequences: She will be shunned by the family for indefinite time, maybe forever, she may lose any rights to her portion of the assets.
2. Your mate can claim before her husband or elders that she started having sex in a moment of weakness with someone outside the marriage bond. Afterwards, she realizes now she doesn't want or need her husband for emotional or sexual needs. She could claim that her marriage is irreconcilably broken, not only because there are far too many unsolved differences between them, but also because she feels she is repeatedly being verbally abused by her husband and not getting the respect that is due to a marriage partner. All this is affecting her health and sanity. She would have to firmly stand her ground and willing to never go back to her husband.
These options are assuming they are true. No one is encouraged to lie or deceive a mate for selfish gain.
Regardless of the action she is willing to take to be with you, you would still be left with a religious victim that may never recover from her losses. She may never be happy in her new arrangement when everything is said and done.
Is it really worth it? Only you can decide that. No one else can do it for you.
There is no advise for her without 1) leaving the cult 2) filling divorce on her own term 3) with a knowledge that she will be shunned forever.
You have to understand that with WT there is no compromise or middle ground. If she remains with WT even after possible divorce, her life and your with it will revolve around KH, WT, and everything. You will not have easy and happy marriage. The advice I said and other too, said it all. Run. It is like a person from free western democracy decides to move into communist regime like USSR, and hoping he can enjoy the sight, while maintaining his or her western freedom. Impossible combination.
Me too. Same situation. I was raised evangelical and she was a born-in JW/WT victim. We had worked for the same small company about 18 years ago - I was always fond of her. Each went on to other companies. We ran into each other at a business meeting a couple of years ago. Turns out since we had seen each other we both had been married, terrible marriages, and divorced. We started seeing each other.
I didn't know much about the JW/WT. I started doing a lot of readying trying to learn more about her situation. She had grown up in a neighbor with many kids - never paid attention to that one guy. Something happened and they dated for exactly 3 months and then was engaged for exactly 3 months. She swears it was not an arranged marriage - but that's pretty suspicious. No wonder it didn't work out.
She filed for "legal" divorce and it went through - no reason really necessary. She explained it to her Elders - very abusive emotionally/physically. They "permitted" her a divorce - but they still consider her married - she had taken her vows and promised God until death do us part. Now they both can never get remarried or ever be with someone else.
The more I read the worse it got. We dated for 2 years and she promised the whole time that everything would be fine. She knew everything would never work out. I was really lead on. She traveled a lot for work - or so I thought. I think was one of the volunteer working in Warwick - tho she claimed to be working in a casino in up state NY - traveling back and forth a lot.
(There was one slip that I always remember - she said she had many friends that had married "Christians". As if we must be different - and JW are not Christians as they claim.)
She had to choose between me and the JW/WT+family/friends.
We were in fact engaged for 1 day. She finally said Yes.
One of her brothers found out ,,, and turned her in. ??? She wrote to me and said thank you for f!#@ing up my entire life. It went down hill from there. We only talked on the phone a few times after. She was a completely different person - a brainwashed zombie. She suddenly began telling me that I only talk to her because I am just horny and wanted sex with her. It was not her brain in there.
So I tried to push the issue and prove to her that the JW/WT was a predatory cult and a hoax. Nothing to lose I guess. If she staid, they would never allow us to be together.
I haven't seen or heard from her for 6 months. So I stumbled upon this site and have found a lot of support and it has helped me to understand more.
Luge62 he has an app that sees all her calls, texts and emails.
Isn't this illegal? Could she press charges?
What things do you have in common? If you say that you think she's your soul mate, then you MUST have a lot in common, right? What things in common do you share. IF it is just the physical attraction, then I suggest that you run. Here's a little test you can try. -get a 12 pack, a pizza and internet porn BEFORE you see her and see what you have in common after that.