Arabs confused by Iraqi’s acceptance of coalition troops

by Elsewhere 38 Replies latest social current

  • freeman

    Forward you state:

    The only reason the anglo saxons were and are there is for economic purposes (cause yes their economy is tipping). Please admit to that, be honest about it. You don't have to pretend your intentions were pure. You are just mad at Saddam cause after supporting him militarily for years (with the hope that you'd cash in on the deal) he didn't give in to your requests for a good deal on oil, so you took him out. What's so terrible about that. You were played, so now you threw a tantrum.

    Your statements suggest you understand little about the American economy, and your use of the phrase “anglo Saxons” in a pejorative manner suggest you are not of this background yourself, of course I have no way of knowing. That said however, you are quite correct when you say “ cause yes their economy is tipping”. Our economy which even in this down cycle is the strongest on the planet is indeed in trouble. But what you fail to understand is that we gain nothing economically from this war, in fact we are only adding to our current economic problems by engaging in a war that will cost us at a minimum 100 billion dollars as a starting point and likely much more down the road.

    So let me get this strait Forward, you believe the reason we are sacrificing the lives of our armed forces is that we are pissed at not getting a good deal on oil??? It seems to me that what you have described is not a valid or justified reason to go to war.

    Forward, did it ever occur to you that the restriction on the sale of Iraqi oil has cost us Billions over the years? Did it ever occur to you that keeping a military presence in Iraqi with planes patrolling the no-fly 24 hr a day 7 days a week for the last 12 years has cost the Anglo Saxons a lot of money?
    I’m confused, exactly how did we benefit by keeping the bulk of Iraqi oil off the market for the last 12 years?

    Forward, do you understand that the free flow of oil at market prices is a good thing for everyone, including the Iraqis themselves? Don’t you think that if we wanted cheaper oil it would have been much simpler to remove the sanctions that were placed on Iraq and let them start selling their oil again at market prices, or has that possibility not occurred to you? If our primary motive was cheap oil we sure went about it in a strange way, don’t you think?

    I’ve only had a few economic courses in college so I’m no expert on economic matters in any sense of the word and don’t claim to be, but even with the little I do know about economics it’s readily apparent that the actions that the United States has taken thus far has in no way benefited them economically. So exactly when is it that we start getting this cheap oil you talk about? And exactly when do we breakeven on the billions we have already spent? Oh and there is one more complication; the United States has already publicly stated that profits from Iraqi oil are to be plowed back into their economy to help cover the cost of rebuilding. So unless you think we can steal this oil from the Iraqi people without anyone noticing I don’t see how the United States is going to be able to get away with it.

    So what has the military actions of the United States accomplished besides costing a lot of money and lives? These actions have accomplished taking WMD out of the hands of someone that would use them against us or possibly provide them to others that would not hesitate to do so. And that was, is, and remains the stated objective according to the Bush administration.

    In one sense Forward you are correct when you say: “You don't have to pretend your intentions were pure”. The fact is our motives are not pure or un-pure, they are simply utilitarian, we want to protect ourselves, we don’t want another 9-11 with the added horror of chemical, biological, or nuclear based WMD. We don’t want crazy people threatening us with WMD and we don’t want anyone threatening the worlds oil supplies. The fact that the removal of Saddam greatly benefits the Iraqi people is just one more benefit.

    But overall Forward, you are completely wrong on this issue, and not because I say so as I’m no better or smarter then anyone. You are wrong because your beliefs are at odds with the facts, much like the Dubs.

    edited to correct some of my poor spelling


  • teenyuck

    Group hug!!

  • JT
    I must say, I do wonder why the Arab nations never chose to oust Saddam on behalf of their fellow muslim brothers

    I got into it today with the Muslium guy I work with on the same point HE HAD TO CONCEDE I GOT HIM

    When an American marine placed a U.S. flag over the statue's face, a commentator on Al Jazeera, the most widely watched Arab satellite TV station, remarked: "Everything that happens from now on will have an American smell."
    The soldier that did this was very foollish and should be reprimanded. It was more then a PR flaw, it was disrespectful to the sovreignty of the Iraqi people, whom we are supposedly trying to help.

    As far a PR is concern you are correct, here in DC it is the talking heads having a field day with what the soldier did- as for being politically correct he was not and you CAN rest assured that someone got raked across the coals, but that is what it is like INSIDE THE BELTWAY

    But IN MIDDLE America they loved it-

    The pundits are always concerned about HOW IT LOOKS while perhaps most Americas didn't give a second thought to it, most just felt –

    HERE you had a marine who just got his butt shot at and now he wanted to take a smack at the guy who was responsible, -

    but for FOLKS like here in DC they make major issues out of what the arabs nations will say and many times sad to say they have to,

    Cause when they sit down with many of those guys they will remember it, but that is why I love small town america THEY COULD CARE LESS

  • JT
    The week prior to the fall, the majority of the JW watching from different countries seemed to believe the WT SOCIETY'S information minister JR BROWN----when he said that the SOCIETY were effectively resisting and would "teach the APOSTATES a lesson". They believed because they wanted to, and that's human nature.

    Now that the events have shown the former WT SOCIETY leadership to be liars, people are unsure what to think next.


  • JT


    as i read thru you all post i could only think actually both of you are right-

    to think that we didn't go into Iraq for Oil is a joke, on the other hand to think that we went intoIRAQ to save the people only is a joke as well

    it was really a combination of the 2 - our way of life -- lives and dies on oil-- the USA would not allow some 2 bit JackAsss to sit on top of one of the worlds largest oil supplies while he Jack the USA around

    on the other hand if this clown has weapons that could cause more problem and had the potential to use them or sell them then once again the US would not sit back and chill

    of course on the other hand the US knows that there are some countries that they don't really want to F&*K with cause these will use thier stuff, so the game of politics is played- the cost factor is done and if the cost and threat ain't too bad- then the US will make a move, but if the cost is too high esp politcally then they don't

    i used to have so many Lobbying firms as clients and if you catch these guys in their office alone

    they will often time talk openly-- about how the real world of GOV is played and sad to say it ain't "Jimmmy Stewart Comes to Washington"

    while the style of rulership under a western style of gov is often thought of as the best , due to how the masses have AT LEAST BETTER RIGHTS than perhaps 85% of the earths population, it of course still falls short - while the CIA , FBI often do alot of underhanded stuff, when one compares a democratic style of rullership to a dictator, one wins hands down each time

    to live in a country where ANY KID BLACK OR WHITE can at least say "I want to be President without getting shot" and actually perhaps-- have a chance to do so is not a bad country to live in

    rarely would any kid under a dictator tell his class when when asked

    "What do you want to grow up and be" THE PRESIDENT OR KING

    not hardly- since we are all former jw we know fully well that there is no perfect gov in fact that is why wt was so attractive to us

    for we all realized that a "Dick Swinging" president like clinton or a Dickhead like bush was perhaps not the same as having Jesus rule the earth, but now that we realize that we will not be sitting under some damn fig we are only left with your clintons and bushes- that is the reality of life and we see and understand that

    so while the gov that jw offered us was a perfect one, we realize that we will have to make due and try to improve the only thing that we got- for me it is the gov i have in the USA

    THIS IS ALL I WILL BE GETTING BEFORE I DIE - that being the case i can only work to try and help improve it the little bit that i can and the same with most of us,

    I would dare say that most of us live in some type of "western" country with varying degrees of freedom, be it canada, or somewhere in europe, for the most part they share some common things- we all can call our leaders "JackAsses" when they act like one and not be put to death

    not a bad country to live in after all, esp in comparison to a dictator- and being former jw we do indeed know a littel something about Dictators

  • Elsewhere

    Some Volunteer-Fighter Arabs Returning Home, Disillusioned by Jihad in Iraq

    Thursday, April 10, 2003

    CAIRO, Egypt — It was a phenomenon of Arab brotherhood: From across the Mideast and even farther afield, hundreds of young men made their way to Iraq to fight the U.S. and British "invaders."

    But with the fall of Baghdad and the absence of Iraqi leadership, some volunteers are returning home, disillusioned and angry at the failure of their jihad, or holy war.

    "We volunteered to defend Baghdad," said Firas Ali Abdullah, who returned to Syria with seven other Syrians and Lebanese on Wednesday. "Instead of giving us weapons to fight, they used us as human shields."

    Scores of Arabs traveled to Iraq before and since the start of the war, taking up the banner of jihad against the U.S.-led offensive.

    Young and old men gathering at bus stations in Damascus, Syria, or taxi stands in Amman, Jordan, vowed to fight, with suicide attacks if they had to.

    But the Arabs expected to join a solid army with firm leadership. With the dissolution of Iraq's government structure, the scattering of the army and the surprising invisibility of even the esteemed Republican Guard, many grew discouraged and disillusioned.

    "We were hit by Iraqis from the back and the American troops from the front," Abdullah said.

    Arab satellite channel Al-Jazeera reported that even the Iraqis were trying to talk the Arabs into giving up the fight.

    Shortly before the war began March 20, Iraqi Vice President Taha Yassin Ramadan announced that thousands of Arab volunteers seeking martyrdom were arriving and more were expected. Iraq's state television later said an estimated 4,000 fighters had arrived.

    Abdullah, the Syrian fighter, said he knew of 600 Arab volunteers, including 180 Syrians and 300 Lebanese and Jordanians. He said he was a member of the militant Lebanese group Hezbollah, which he said sent 200 suicide fighters, although the group has denied sending anyone.

    Many volunteers remain in Iraq, making up some of the most determined holdouts in the fight against coalition troops. In Baghdad on Thursday, U.S. Marines cleared out two mosques after determining that fighters from other Arab countries were inside, firing on U.S. troops.

    At a former Iraqi military compound, eight prisoners knelt in the dirt. U.S. soldiers said they were suspected Islamic militants from France, Algeria, Egypt and Jordan.

    In Cairo, the furor for jihad has died down.

    On Wednesday, Egyptian TV showed footage of men clamoring to get inside the lawyers' union offices, where they could sign up for jihad. But on Thursday, the office was empty and the man in charge of distributing applications said no volunteers had come since Wednesday afternoon, when televisions aired live footage of Saddam's statue being toppled in Baghdad.

    At a shabby coffee shop in downtown Cairo, waiter Ashraf Abu el-Alla seemed resigned to the futility of the volunteers' fight.

    "There is no use now. Look at the Iraqi president, he let his people down. Why should Arabs remain there?" he asked.

  • DJ

    Where do you suppose the media attention the the nuke lab is? CNN and MSNBC aren't even giving it a mention. dj

  • Gerard

    Too much to watch A Jordanian in Amman covers his face in front of a television showing a U.S. Marine draping a U.S. flag over the face of a statue of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein in Baghdad on Wednesday. Jubilant Iraqis tied a noose around the statue and pelted it with shoes as Saddam's 24-year rule collapsed in chaos.

    Gone fishing Pfc. Mark Bennett drops a line in the lake surrounding one of Saddam Hussein's palaces in western Baghdad. Bennett was using noodles from a chicken with noodles MRE as bait, but didn't have any luck.

  • foreword

    Only time will tell, that's for sure.

    However, I feel there is a difference between the US gov. and corporate america. Of course the US gov. won't recuperate their money, they don't need to be business wise, all they need is to balance the budget. Which means that if cutting isn't enough, then taxes need to be raised, so the ordinary Joe in the US will pay more taxes, definitely not the corporations.

    I'll tell you though, I'm sure that the individuals (or corporations) who will benefit from the restructuring of Iraq with it's business contracts, are rubbing their hands together loving every minute of this. Wouldn't you? It really is interesting to see that Bush and his accolates are all in the oil business, not counting others in the defense industry. Now that you blew up most of your arsenal, hey you'll need new ones. New technology....more expensive...right?

    Now you tell me, who will profit from this, you or them? You take hold of their cause (what they want you to believe the cause is) and you support these guys. Them, they could care less about you, they are already smeeling the money. They're politicians for crying out loud. And you believe them? LOL..

    Maybe you guys can gloat over your famous lifestyle...the best in the world....sure I agree to that. But why don't you go ask all the people working in sweat shops how they feel about your selfish, non sharing attitudes.

    Maybe you'll get a better picture as to why people hate you guys.

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