Arabs confused by Iraqi’s acceptance of coalition troops

by Elsewhere 38 Replies latest social current

  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere

    An article from the Al Jazeera web site...

    http://english.aljazeera.net/topics/article.asp?cu_no=1&item_no=2299&version=1&template_id=263&parent_id=258

    (Because the Address has "&" signs in it, you will have to cut and paste the address into a new browser to view to actual web site.)

    Arab street finds capitulation hard to swallow

    The Arab world was in shock and denial on Thursday after Baghdad fell almost without a fight, bringing to an end President Saddam Hussein's 24-year rule.

    Many felt let down by demise of a figure who had represented a rare source of Arab defiance of American power; others were more shocked by his own people's failure to defend or mourn him, and saw it as a warning to other unelected Arab rulers.

    "I am very sad. All of Egypt is sad. My wife was weeping this morning," said Adel Farouq, a 45-year-old Egyptian taxi driver.

    Semari Ahmed, a Tunis history teacher, said: "I hear people asking angrily why Saddam's forces 'crumbled like a biscuit under US troops'. That outcome is logical. Saddam's artificial support was a result of a culture of hypocrisy, not conviction."

    From the Atlantic to the Arabian Gulf, television images of crowds rejoicing at cheering US Marines toppling a Saddam statue in central Baghdad, broadcast repeatedly since Wednesday afternoon, caused consternation and a sense of shame.

    The fact that there was little resistance to the US troops that entered Baghdad from all directions sparked Arab speculation that senior leaders might have struck a deal with the Americans.

    Jordanian Palestinians shout pro-Saddam Hussein slogans in downtown Amman April 4, 2003

    "I still cannot believe that the Americans entered Baghdad this easily. If a deal was struck with Saddam, then that proves that he staked his people and the hopes of all Arabs in order to survive," said Yahya Kahla, a teacher in Sanaa, capital of Yemen.

    "He is one of the traitors we have known throughout history and he will not be the last."

    Palestinians watching the Al Jazeera and Abu Dhabi satellite stations were stunned at seeing the giant Saddam statue tumble in a Baghdad square after the rapid collapse of Iraq's military.

    "This is a tragedy and a bloody comedy. We cannot believe what we see. What happened? It seems that the Iraqis have given up Baghdad without a fight. Where is the Iraqi army? Have they evaporated?" said Walid Salem, a Ramallah shopkeeper.

    Ali Jaddah, an engineer, said: "It's a day of shame. On this day Arabs have become slaves. The only man who dared to say 'no' to the Americans' face has vanished today. What is left is a bunch of bowing and scraping Arab leaders."

    Many Arabs equate the Palestinians' plight under Israeli occupation with the Iraqis' new situation under US and British military invasion. Anti-war banners have often featured joined Iraqi and Palestinian flags.

    But some people said Saddam's fall should be a warning to other Arab leaders.

    "What happened in Baghdad must be taken into consideration by Arab rulers because the people are the ones who defend a country, and if they are tortured and their honour is violated then they will be the first to abandon it," said Hussein Taher, a 37-year-old private sector employee in Saudi Arabia.

    Egyptian political commentator Salama Ahmed Salama told Reuters: "The gap between Arab governments and the people represents a source of anxiety for different Arab regimes. But whether they'll learn the lesson or not, I don't know."

    Lesson to others?

    The Iraqi example showed that the backing of a party, clique or tribe was not enough to sustain a legitimate government.

    "The scene of the statue being brought down showed how Iraqis were dissatisfied with (Saddam's) regime. Maybe this is going to be a lesson and an example to other Arab leaders who consider themselves as gods," said Ali Hassan, a shopper in the West Bank city of Ramallah.

    Some Arab broadcasters made a point of telling viewers Saddam's demise was the end of a unique tyranny, not a precedent for other states ruled by unelected monarchs or autocrats.

    "The Iraqi situation is exceptional, we can't compare it with Iran or Egypt...or a country like Saudi Arabia. This is...a regime outside history," Saudi commentator Jamal Khashoggi said.

    While Kuwaitis -- occupied by Iraq in 1990 -- shared in the celebration, the toppling of Saddam's monument looked different in many Arab countries to the way it was seen in the West.

    To many, it was an act of imperial conquest by an outside power rather than an act of liberation.

    When an American marine placed a U.S. flag over the statue's face, a commentator on Al Jazeera, the most widely watched Arab satellite TV station, remarked: "Everything that happens from now on will have an American smell."

    Pro-western Morocco's state TV channel 2M gave wide play in to images of looting, cheerful Iraqis dancing on the destroyed statue of Saddam and refugees fleeing the capital.

    But many other Arab media focused on the civilian casualties thronging overwhelmed Iraqi hospitals, as well as journalists killed by US tank and missile fire in Baghdad.

    On the streets of Amman one question was on everyone's lips: "How could it have happened?" How could Baghdad fall with the bat of an eyelid into US hands?

    "The Jordanian people are astounded by the images of US tanks rolling into Baghdad and statues of Saddam Hussein being brought down, because they believed that the Iraqi capital would resist a long time," a political analyst told AFP.

    Engineer Samir Ezzat, 37, bitterly watched television broadcasts from Iraq showing scenes of jubilant Iraqis dancing in the streets of Baghdad.

    "I am sad because the liberation of the Iraqi people was done at the hands of the Americans who were only motivated by their own interests and not the welfare of the Iraqi people," Ezzat said.

    Businessman Ziad Shannak found the developments in Baghdad hard to swallow.

    "Once more the Arabs have been humiliated and deceived like the crushing defeat we faced during the 1967 war with Israel, despite the thunderous promises of victory Nasser made," he said of the former Egyptian leader. --- Compiled from agency reports

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Some posters here too, are very confused..........hehe

  • DJ
    DJ

    Hard to get a grip onto their mindset isn't it? I saw an interview last night on Larry King w/ a guy from Egypt (lol, I can't remeber who he was) Anyway, he claimed that most educated people understand that Saddam was a brutal dictator but they didn't feel that America should have had a role in his demise. They are frightened that we will occupy Iraq, blah , blah, blah. I think that timing in seting up a new Iraqi gov. should end their fears. Also, we should bear in mind that Arab tv has not exactly told the whole truth and these people have been bombarded with propaganda. I must say, I do wonder why the Arab nations never chose to oust Saddam on behalf of their fellow muslim brothers. They make little sense to me. It is as if Arabs and Americans look at each other with perplexed looks on their faces totally unable to relate. They are similar to aliens from another planet with some of their culture which forms their opinions. I am concerned mainly now for our troops because of the wacko suicide bombers. Apparently today 4 Marines were seriously injured by one. Is this the "unconvention war method" that the infamous Iraqi foreign minister eluded to? Do you suppose that the extremists want to turn Iraq into another Palestinian-Israeli conflict? That's where I put my buck. I just hope that they won't be successful in convincing the Arab world that this is correct. It really aggravates me to think about the suicide bombers. Osama calling for jihad yeaterday....what a joke.....the reporter said that Osama needed some media attention because they were too busy with the war coverage and he must have felt left out. Cracks me up when journalists say what they really think! You'd think that the Osama's of the world who recruit suicide bombers would feel so strongly about their mission that they would do it too but they don't do they? They just hide in caves instead.

  • gitasatsangha
    gitasatsangha

    I'm not confused, thichi. Where are the WMD's? There are WMD's aren't there? That is what we conquered the place for, isn't it?

    When an American marine placed a U.S. flag over the statue's face, a commentator on Al Jazeera, the most widely watched Arab satellite TV station, remarked: "Everything that happens from now on will have an American smell."

    The soldier that did this was very foollish and should be reprimanded. It was more then a PR flaw, it was disrespectful to the sovreignty of the Iraqi people, whom we are supposedly trying to help.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine
    The soldier that did this was very foollish and should be reprimanded. It was more then a PR flaw, it was disrespectful to the sovreignty of the Iraqi people, whom we are supposedly trying to help.

    Oh please. Give me, my child, and my earth-wide family a frickin' break.

  • DJ
    DJ

    LOL@Six

  • teenyuck
    teenyuck

    They have tested twice and the stuff is showing as weapons grade plutonium. They will be testing again.

    Underground Nuclear Facility Found in Iraq

    Thursday, April 10, 2003

    BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. officials are investigating a massive underground nuclear facility that was discovered below the Al Tuwaitha complex of the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission in a suburban town south of Baghdad.

    While they aren't prepared to say the discovery is the smoking gun proving Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, Fox News confirmed that officials are very interested in the labyrinth of labs and warehouses unearthed by U.S. forces.

    The discovery was unexpected and forces in the area are testing a variety of things to best determine the significance of the find.

    Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have far found 14 buildings that have high levels of radiation, an embedded reporter from the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reported Thursday, noting that some of the tests have found nuclear residue too deadly for human occupation.

    The Marine radiation detectors go "off the charts" a few hundred meters outside the nuclear compound, where locals say "missile water" is stored in enormous caverns, the correspondent, Carl Prine, reported. Prine is embedded with the U.S. 1st Marine Division.

    "It's amazing," Chief Warrant Officer Darrin Flick, the battalion's nuclear, biological and chemical warfare specialist told the paper. "I went to the off-site storage buildings, and the rad detector went off the charts. Then I opened the steel door, and there were all these drums, many, many drums, of highly radioactive material."

    This underground discovery could still test to be perfectly legitimate and offer no proof of chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. The CIA encouraged international inspectors in the fall of 2002 to probe Al Tuwaitha for weapons of mass destruction, and the inspectors came away empty handed.

    "They went through that site multiple times, but did they go underground? I never heard anything about that," physicist David Albright, a former IAEA Action Team inspector in Iraq from 1992 to 1997, told the Tribune-Review.

    "The Marines should be particularly careful because of those high readings," he told the paper. "Three hours at levels like that and people begin to vomit. That leads me to wonder, if the readings are accurate, whether radioactive material was deliberately left there to expose people to dangerous levels.

    "You couldn't do scientific work in levels like that. You would die."

    Capt. John Seegar, a combat engineer commander from Houston, is currently running the operation in Al Tuwaitha. "I've never seen anything like it, ever," he told the Tribune-Review. "How did the world miss all of this? Why couldn't they see what was happening here?"

  • DJ
    DJ

    WOW! Thanks for that teenyuk. You ough to start a thread with it.........there ya go Gitas, are you going to alledge that the US planted that?

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Git......:

    You sure sound confused!

    ""I'm not confused, thichi. Where are the WMD's? There are WMD's aren't there? That is what we conquered the place for, isn't it? ""

    1. The WMD are only one aspect of the material breach violation of 1441

    2. With sixty miles of tunnels under Bagdad, and countless places to hide WMD, this will take time. Remember: Initial investigations of 14 barrels found at a military training camp in the town of Albu Mahawish on Sunday revealed levels of nerve agents sarin and tabun and the blister agent lewisite..

    3. Your question begs the question: If Saddam did not have WMD, then why did he screw with the Inspectors and UN all this time?

    Then, when all is said and done it is beside the point that the Iraqis are Free!

    I agree with the following commentary:

    Let's try to put ourselves in the shoes of the Hussein regime. If he had any ability to face reality, Saddam had to know that the moment our military showed up that it was over. If he did, what would be gained by launching a chemical attack on our troops? This was predicted, we were prepared for it, and it would convince the world community that everybody who said he had them was right. Saddam has a martyr image of himself. Suppose that in the run-up to all this, Saddam actually snuck some of this stuff out of the country, placed it in the hands of terrorists, and his legacy will be ongoing terrorist attacks used by his chemical weapons that he has seen fit to transfer to people like Al-Qaeda and other organizations. Future terrorist attacks using such weapons constitute his legacy. It's not all that far out of the realm of possibility. And that's why the hunt for these things will go on. The idea that they're not there is something that's not even going to be contemplated. Don't forget what Tony Blair said to all of the European Union ministers in one of the last meetings of that group where Blair was trying to convince them to come on board at the United Nations. He looked them dead square in the eye and he said there's not one of you in this room who doesn't know that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction. Nobody disputed him, nobody objected to it, and nobody even argued. In fact, all of the evidence to show that Iraq does have those weapons has been shown to members of the House and members of the Senate here, as well. The vast majority of them know full well the Iraqi weapons of mass destruction arsenal, and it's only the kooks and the wackos who are saying they haven't been shown conclusive evidence that he has them. So, don't even think that's a question. The larger question is if they have somehow escaped the country, where are they?

    The larger question is if they have somehow escaped the country, where are they?

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    teenyuk: Good job!

    It proves that once more, Ignorance is Blix! Hehe

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