Causing divisions is doing God's will!

by rebel 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  anti-absolutist

  rebel,

  I would agree with others here and yourself that sometimes you have to be gentle and mild, but other times you may have to be really blunt and possibly even heated.

  If your husband wants to take one scripture like that so literally, ask him if he would do the same thing that (I hope I have my facts straight on this one) Lot did for the men who came looking for the angels back in the day.

  Lot evidently, (from the Bible's viewpoint, not mine) had God's backing. Yet when the men of Sodom and Gomorrah came, wanting to have sex with these strangers, he instead offered his virgin daughters to them. These evil men, who God was about to destroy, for their wickedness, and he thought nothing of offering his daughters to them. WOW!!!

  Point being, though, that if your hubby wants to take one scripture literally, why don't they take them all literally. The world would be a terrible place if they did.

  You are in for a tough argument with your hubby. He knows he is right and you know you are right. Be civil, but being nice would probably only allow him to get more power from you.

  Just my opinion, Brad
• 

  blondie

  rebel, it is good to remember to whom Jesus was talking. His disciples came from a group a people whose worship was a family thing. The Jews were born into their religion. They were dedicated from birth, not like it was with Christians who had to make an individual choice and be baptized. The Jews didn't study the Law and then decide to become a Jew.

  So Jesus knew that this automatic family religious arrangement was going to end. Thus some would choose to follow Jesus, the new arrangement, and some would stay with the family religion, putting family ahead of him.

  You are making your choice based on your study and knowledge of the Bible. If the WT publications don't agree with the Bible and the actions of the WTS are out of harmony with Jesus words, you must put the Bible and Jesus first. If your husband's loyalty is first to the WTS and second to the Bible and Jesus, naturally there is no longer any agreement between you and him on that issue. Should the Jews have followed the Pharisees, self-proclaimed interpreters of the Law, or should they have listed to Jesus, who the Law was designed to lead people to?

  Well, I thought I had an original idea but it is not coming out as clear as I want.

  Blondie
• 

  rebel

  Brad - I have always found the incident with Lot hard to swallow. It just doesn't seem to be the sort of thing a loving father would do. There are so many other accounts I can't quite understand at the moment. And I am trying to be civil but, like you say, sometimes you have to speak your mind.

  Blondie - your comments make perfect sense. It is so good to get more background information. It's only by taking scriptures in context that we can really see what they mean. I understand what Jesus meant more clearly now - thank you. It is easy to look at things from our modern point of view, forgetting that the Jews had a totally different upbringing and understanding of things. And it is so easy for the WTS to pluck scriptures out and interpret them to suit themselves and their own agendas.

  xxR
• 

  ChristianObserver

  Hello Rebel :o)

  I am so sorry for the situation you find yourself in.

  Blondie is right in her explanation of the passage (which is the traditional Church teaching about those verses) and you now find yourself in a similar situation to those early Christians who followed Jesus despite the disapproval of their families. Where whole families accepted Jesus, there was not a problem, just as nowadays if whole families leave the organisation together, they can weather the storm more successfully than when some members of the family remain within.

  If your intention is not to disown Jesus, the verses do not apply to you:

  Matt 10:33-39 "..but whoever disowns me (Jesus) before men, I (Jesus) will also disown him before my Father who is in the heavens.

  Your husband believes that any opposition to the WTBTS view is opposition to Jehovah and/or Jesus.

  This appears on the WTBTS official site:

  *Why do many oppose Jehovah's Witnesses and tell me not to study with them?

  There was opposition to Jesus' preaching, and he said that his followers also would be opposed. When some were impressed with Jesus' teaching, religious opposers retorted: "You have not been misled also, have you? Not one of the rulers or of the Pharisees has put faith in him, has he?" (John 7:46-48; 15:20) Many who advise you not to study with the Witnesses are either uninformed or prejudiced. Study with the Witnesses and see for yourself whether your Bible understanding increases or not.—Matthew 7:17-20.*

  So in your husband's thinking, you are reacting as the Pharisees and the rulers did towards Jesus' preaching and this is why he has quoted that passage. Living outside the organisation = not living on paradise earth in his view.

  Gentle questioning/doubt raising, rather than all out arguments, might be your best approach. It will take time though.

  I sincerely wish you well.
• 

  A Paduan

  Rebel,

  Using that same scripture that he quoted, point out that Jesus was talking to people about admitting what is true in face of loss, and in particular, against what the group of "speak-for-godders" had been laying on everyone as truth tm. Ask him to look around his aquaintances and see who is like a pharisee, AND to tell the truth about it.

  The scripture he cited can be understood in terms of the Australian saying - "call a spade a spade, and not a shovel" or in Jesus' words, "Let your yes be yes and your no be no".
• 

  rocketman

  Sadly rebel, what this shows is how unfortunate it is when someone opens a bible, reads one scripture, and then makes the strong assertion that it applies in that given situation, without looking at the context, as Blondie did in her comment. The scriptures have to be taken on balance, and actually, your original thought about simply following Jesus whole-souled is a very reasonable application of it.

  One thing that got my attention - you mentioned that it was hard to think while your hubby was looking at you with "smoke coming from his nostrils". Well, that doesn't sound very Christian to me. Sadly, many jws lose all sense of what being a Christian really means once anyone dares disagree with them, or even states a alternate view.
• 

  rocketman

  Don't know how to edit......anyway, Blondie did mantion the context in her comment, and that's what I meant to say.
• 

  gumby

  Jesus did say as you quote that all must follow Him whole souled, and this is what your husband believes he is doing in following the JWs, I have to agree with him on this.

  Then maybe you should leave this place and go to those whom Jehovah really loves. Nice advise for a hurting woman einstein......maybe you should team up with her hubby and both of you can persecute her together. Take a ride!

  Rebel...as you know the society equates all scriptures that deal with leaving god or his son with leaving the organisation. Regardless how much a person loves god and worships him....if it is outside the organisation....god doesn't accept the worship. You have never stated you disowned Jesus or his dad, yet you are accused of that.

  As long as he's convinced they have the truth.....he will see the scripture the way they do.......oh...and of course scooby too.

  Gumby

  Gumby
• 

  rebel

  ChristianObserver, A Paduan & rocketman - thanks for your advice and the info. It is really appreciated. I was beginning to think I had got this scripture completely wrong.

  Gumby - thanks for your support. ScoobySnax is puzzling - not sure what to make of him.

  One thing about my husband. I don't want to make him out to be the baddie - he is just so 'in' the 'truth', it makes it hard to reason with him. When someone snitched on me a couple of weeks back and told him who I was on this forum, he looked at this board for about 10 seconds. As he looked at it, I could see him tremble, like he was looking at Satan or something. He quickly turned away from it and refused to look any more - I really felt for him and still feel like crying when I think about his reaction - he is so afraid of looking at or reading anything that the WTS terms as apostate. He is so convinced that he has the truth and he thinks I am turning my back on God. My heart aches for him but I don't know what to do. I don't go out of my way to argue with him, as some seem to think. I just give my opinion and let him know how I feel if he brings anything up about going to meetings or anything.

  xxR
• 

  twinkletoes

  Rebel,

  I'm so sorry to hear of the problems. One thing that really concerns me is how JWs can be told about the Watchtower's involvement with the United Nations and accept it without batting an eyelid. We have written personally to a number in our old congregation and given them copies of the letter from the UN confirming this association, yet it doesn't seem to bother them. I have sent the info to my own brother (JW) but he said he didn't want to discuss it ! How did your husband accept this, have you spoken to him about it ? I can honestly say that it was the very first thing that made us sit up and take note, and from there we obtained Ray Franz's book and realised just what was really going on.

  Twink