Iraqi expatriates return to battle U.S.

by Trauma_Hound 48 Replies latest social current

• 

  borgfree

  A few questions come to my mind while reading the article.

  haven for at least 300,000 Iraqis who over the past 15 years have fled their country's wars, repression and economic hardships. Now, with a military conflict intensifying, many feel a patriotic urge to go home.

  So these patriots flee their country to live a better life in another country, but now, as the coalition fights to free them for a better life in their own country, they get the courage to return and fight against the very ones who are risking,and giving, their lives for them?

  "I'm ready to become a martyr to keep the Americans out."

  His wish, will no doubt be granted.

  Jordan has kept its borders open for civilians who have wanted to leave Iraq. As of Tuesday, few refugees had appeared on the border.

  300,000 have left over 15 years, fleeing the dictator, but few are now crossing the border? One of those HMMMMMMMMs.

  The vast majority of their passengers are men of fighting age who have traveled with only a few personal items, they said........................

  The 50 males aboard a packed Greyhound-size bus Tuesday that left downtown Amman

  Greyhound-size bus? PACKED by 50 males?

  In the Iraqi community in Jordan, pressure to return and fight is strong

  Could it be that their families in Iraq are being threatened with death, torture and mutilation if they do not return to fight for the dictator?

  Borgfree
• 

  hillary_step

  Borgfree,

  Again you make the same fundamental mistake that many have made:

  So these patriots flee their country to live a better life in another country, but now, as the coalition fights to free them for a better life in their own country, they get the courage to return and fight against the very ones who are risking,and giving, their lives for them?

  Many Arabs are not viewing this as the battle for the deposition of Saddam, but the battle of Arab against the West. They are preparing themselves for battle against what they see as an invasion of the Arab and all he stands for, by the West.

  HS
• 

  dubla

  ur-

  Let me guess, these Iraqi's will be villified shortly as "terrorists"

  they will only be labeled terrorists if they commit the same acts of terror some of their homeland counterparts are committing now, such as firing mortars on civilian crowds.

  for simply practicing the same belief that americans have been hiding behind for the last three wars:
  
  "my country right or wrong". It's OK for americans to rally behind their flag, just not the enemy!

  nah, thats fine for the enemy as well.....if they want to return home to die, thats well within their rights. aa
• 

  borgfree

  H_S,

  Many Arabs are not viewing this as the battle for the deposition of Saddam, but the battle of Arab against the West

  I think this may be a very important question. Why do they view it that way? If it is just a matter of outsiders attacking their country's rulership, then it does not make sense.

  If, however, it is a religious matter, then it is very serious and something we must take action against, now. The Quran teaches the Muslims that they must kill the infidel. If they view our help in that way, that they must kill us because we are infidels invading their land, then we have a long, but, necessary war ahead of us.

  Borgfree
• 

  hillary_step

  Hello Borgfree,

  This is not just a matter of religion, but culture, politics and national soveriengty. Not all Christians do what the Bible tells them to do, not all Muslims adhere to every facet of Islam, in fact there are as many factions of Islam as there are of Christianity. Imagine if all Christians were painted in the same light as the WTS!

  You note:

  I think this may be a very important question. Why do they view it that way? If it is just a matter of outsiders attacking their country's rulership, then it does not make sense.

  Again, not their 'country's' rulership, their right to be Arab and not have a form of democracy imposed upon them is what they view as the enemy. The cry of 'invading imperialists' has overshadowed the cry to religious arms. Whether we agree or not with this summation, this is what is impelling other Arabs to join the fray. Arabs and Arab life are not just about religion!

  The Quran teaches the Muslims that they must kill the infidel. If they view our help in that way, that they must kill us because we are infidels invading their land, then we have a long, but, necessary war ahead of us.

  Sound Foreign Policy and diplomacy, however long it takes is a tried and tested methodology at helping people to see both sides of an issue and then reaching some sort of compromise without killing people. Your views stated above, and replicated by the White House shows a sad ignorance of history, and dare I say it, is imperialist in the extreme.

  HS
• 

  heathen

  I was against the war altogether myself but since the US has gone ahead and declared war I think that no way should Iraq recruit more troops and these bus loads of Iraqies could be easily viewed as troop movement and thus be eliminated. Borgfree--- That's a good observation . The muslims in that area are constantly looking for a reason to start a jihad. They do hate the christian and jewish culture with a passion .As hillary step mentions about culture ,the part about the Islam culture that totally stinks is that they have no tolerance of people with different views and resort to murdering one another .You people think the WT is a threat to freeminds ,it amounts to nothing in comparison to the brutal treatment that goes on between the factions of Islam .IMO
• 

  willy_think

  It can't really be much of a surprise. After all how bad would your government need to treat it's citizens before you would welcome a Chinese "liberating force"?

  I wonder how long it will take the right wing to start blaming the democrats.
• 

  borgfree

  H_S,

  Sound Foreign Policy and diplomacy, however long it takes is a tried and tested methodology at helping people to see both sides of an issue and then reaching some sort of compromise without killing people. Your views stated above, and replicated by the White House shows a sad ignorance of history, and dare I say it, is imperialist in the extreme.

  Diplomacy does not always work. Nazi Germany is only one example of the diplomats talking while the aggressors were acting.

  I will post the first paragraph of an article, one of many available on the net about Islam.

  The root cause? We're all infidels

  By Mark Steyn - National Post (Canada) - October 17, 2002

  An appeaser, said Churchill, feeds the crocodile in the hope that it will eat him last.
  But sometimes the croc eats him first anyway. For months, the U.S., Britain and even Canada apparently had warned the Indonesian government about terrorists operating within its borders. So had Singapore and Malaysia. President Megawati's administration responded by calling Washington anti-Muslim. The American Ambassador was publicly denounced by her Vice-President. The Foreign Minister, Hassan Wirayuda, said in February that the outside world's fears of Islamic terrorism in Indonesia were overblown and that in Jakarta "we laugh at it."
  Ha-ha. From government contacts to police indifference, the administration's strategy was to deny the crocodile existed and then quietly slip him the a la carte menu. http://www.likud.nl/press245.html

  The "right" may be ignorant, to some degree, of history, but we are not alone. The left seems to think violent aggressive people can always be reasoned with. History proves that idea wrong.

  We can talk all we want about being nice to people who are determined to wipe us from the face of the earth (there is evidence that Islam not only feels that way, but teaches their children in schools to think that way) Some, maybe all, Muslims believe that way. We excuse them and say that it is only the radical Muslims, but their Holy Book teaches them that way.

  There comes a time when we must "get real", fantasies will only get our country destroyed, our way of life replaced with totalitarianism, and maybe get our families killed. It is like the saying, eat or be eaten. We are the power of the world, we should use that power to assure freedom not only for ourselves but for as much of the world as possible. If we don't, someday there will be a power that will grow strong enough to impose their way on us, you can bet it will not be as kind as America. Borgfree
• 

  expatbrit

  Travel. Speak to these people, learn that they are not all barbarians, but most of them tender, hospitable and kind people. Learn that Arab tears have the same clarity as Western tears and that one Arab life has the same value as a Westerners life. Learn that these people are hemmed in by tribal traditions of which they are proud and would die for. They may hate Saddam, but they love their religion and culture and above all their families and will fight to the death to honor them.

  You're starting to sound like me, Hillary. Or is it vice versa? Funny how the same reasoning can lead to opposite conclusions. I couldn't have put the above better, or be more in agreement with it. What you have written is why I support the use of military force to remove Saddam.

  It is quite true that many Arabs view this war as an attack upon their culture and their religion. Quite a lot of Westerners do too. They are wrong, and demonstrating their error will be just as important a battle as the military one.

  Call me an optimist, but I believe that once the regime of Saddam is finally gone and his power to inspire fear is finished, we will see a marked change in the attitude of the Iraqi people to the "invaders". They may be "hemmed in by tribal traditions", but they are also very smart, on the whole. Smart enough to realise that a brutal dictatorship and culture are two completely unconnected things.

  Saddam Hussein has done more to attack and destroy Arab and Iraqi culture than the United States ever will.

  Expatbrit
• 

  hillary_step

  Borgfree,

  The "right" may be ignorant, to some degree, of history, but we are not alone.

  The antidote to ignorance is education. I am neither left nor right, in fact I repudiate such easy labels. The parallels to Hitler that are continually drawn between the East and West at present are simplistic in the extreme. For example, Hitler was looking for 'lebenstraum' for the German people - it was on this basis that he armed himself and ignored European demands to abide by the impossible terms of Treaty Of Versailles. Diplomacy failed, yet if you read the letters of Count Ciampino, who was closely involved in these diplomacy’s, there are many reasons why they failed, not the least being that they were not attempted until the eleventh hour. The previous decade when Hitler was gradually developing power within Germany, diplomacy was virtually non-existent due once again to a miscalculation of Foreign Policy.

  Have you researched the reason why Iraq launched an unprovoked attack on Iran? An attack incidentally made with complicit approval, financial and military aid from the US Regan Government at the time. Saddam felt threatened by the very Muslim fundamentalism that you allude to in your post. What does this tell you about Arabs and Muslims? Well that they do not all speak with the universal voice of Osama Bin Laden and his fanatical ilk. 9/11 was all about US troops in Saudia Arabia, nothing to do with Iraq. Many Arabs if you recall denounced this appalling act in which Muslims died as well.

  Yes, I agree many parts of the Muslim faith are offensive and dangerous. Islam is an agressive religion that spread dramatically in the C7th due to its 'join or die' philosophy. That was what the Crusades were initally about, to protect the Christian communities who were being wiped out. It is also true that Islam demands that one day, through warfare if neccessary, the whole world be Muslim. Yet, this is not what Iraq is about. Iraq is according to President Bush about 1) Weapons Of Mass Destruction 2) A direct link between Iraq and 9/11. Do you think other agendas may be at play....lol

  As for Indonesia. I do not have to remind you that the US has been providing military aid to this barbaric government and has been training its brutal anti-terrorist troops. Its Government is once again contemporary proof that an ignorant Foreign Policy will indeed result in the crocodile of extremism ripping the seat out of ones pants! Yesterdays diplomatic failure, yields today's wars and tomorrow’s martyrs.

  Best regards - HS