Do you know of any church that KNOWS God? (page 6)

punkofnice

It's all about money and power.

Religion is a big con, a grift. Clearly seen in the way Watchtower Corporation(tm) works. We all fell for it.

Not many poor religious leaders around Christianity.

resolute Bandicoot

Not many poor religious leaders around Christianity.

For sure, just remember that when America was down and out during the great depression JF Rutherford had the audacity to be driven around in one of his 2 V16 Cadillacs - the most expensive locally made vehicle of the era.

jhine

ReasonFirst l am genuinely impressed by your search for knowledge. I never meant to give offence, l never do mean to l just sometimes inadvertently manage it

It's just that time and again when someone is searching or questioning then non believers point them to anti Christian material.

As a Christian l wouldn't want to stop someone looking at both sides it would be wrong of me to do so . However l do say look at both sides.

You clearly have , but many of those who are just leaving the WT haven't. They only know the GBs version of Christianity. Although many on here tend to lump all Christian denominations together. I really don't see any similarities at all with the Watchtower. You obviously know how different the other groups are to JWism and have rejected all choices. But you knew what you were rejecting.

To make an informed decision someone needs to find out about all the options, including atheism .

Jan

punkofnice

I think old Boozerford was a phantom. He has no shadow.

No wonder TOMO is always slurring his words and staggering about drunk, he's following the example of the Boozerford ghost.

Vanderhoven7

@Ratti

"God created the heavens and the earth and then neglected it."

Why would you conclude neglect? John 3:16-17 says the exact opposite.

"There are a bunch of details about what people think that God is pleased with or displeased with, but no one knows God."

You can legitimately say that you do not know Him or what pleases Him, but you can't know that about everyone else.

My take is that God has revealed Himself and His Will in Jesus Christ.

Perhaps man cannot know God through science, religion, logic or philosophy but then there is divine revelation where God speaks to the repentant heart.

Reasonfirst

Response to Jhine,

Jan, you did not offend me. I responded (the way I did) to provide some background to the comments I've made. And thank you for your compliment.

I agree that we should try to understand all viewpoints, but I guess we all fail sometimes, I know I do too. And, it's always difficult, if not impossible, to obtain All the information on a specific topic.

For example, this morning, access to an Academic paper on Academia was in my email, the paper deals with Zoroastrian influence on Judaism- to understand all of that may take months, and I don't think I want to spend all that time on that subject, yet it is a fascinating possibility.

And, sometimes evidence is offered beyond normal human perceptions. Just how, as an example would any god speak (inform us) to our hearts? I've had people believing in some other religion (other than xtianity) say something similar. So is that a supernatural personage, acting in a way that we do not understand, doing that? Or, is there some part of our normal mind (brain) acting in a way that we do not yet understand?

Again, I thank you for your compliment to me.

vienne

I have visited many churches and had more conversations with clergy and lay people than I can count. I probably med a few people who knew God as well as one can. But a church that as a whole that knows God. I haven't found one yet.

Mom associated with an Abrahamic Faith congregation for quite a while. They have some basic similarities to Witnesses without wild prophetic speculation and dictatorial administration. But she left eventually, staying friends with some, but unable to tolerate some behaviors.

Christians are where you find them. I mean a God following individual may be anywhere despite what their church is. Baptists? Hardly. They do not know the Bible and as a group do not follow it.

jhine

Vienne may l ask are you basing your opinion of Baptists on the Westboro Baptists? I think that certainly British Baptists are quite different.

I get the IMPRESSION ( I'm not American so don't have first hand knowledge) that American religion generally is more er strict or extreme.

US JWs seem a bit more dogmatic than their British counterparts , who are harsh enough.

It's a shame that the Westboro mob get so much media time and then taint Christianity in the eyes of many .

Jan

vienne

Hi Jan,

No, the Westboro Baptists do not represent most Baptist faiths. Baptists in general, in America at least, no longer know their Bible, do not see it as fully relevant, do not follow it, at least not as men of faith. They are Biblically illiterate.

Annie

Reasonfirst

Some interesting comments that seem to indicate a belief that most members in a church are/were nominal, and "true" Christians need to be in some magical way, informed by god as to what is "true faith."

Have I read this correctly?

I'm also not defending the JWs or their elders? The Jw's hav'nt got "truth" any more than any other group of believers. Throughout history Christians have argued with each other, and even killed each other over "truth."

I've just been re-reading the early Christian document known as First Clement, thought to have been written (possibly) 96CE. Clement, whoever he was, it's claimed he was a presbyter (elder) in he congregation in Rome, and is writing to the congregation in Corinth, which had experienced an extreme division. The writer claims that the Corinth Christian once were, "all humble and without pretensions, obeying orders (who issued those orders?) rather than issuing them."

But things changed, "there arose rivalry and envy, strife and sedition, persecution (i.e. some Christians persecuted other Christians) and anarchy, war an captivity."

And, that's the point I want to make. Churches have always had fights, arguments and schisms. It's unlikely that the Corinth congregation, at the end of the first century was the first to have that experience of heated arguments over doctrines and beliefs and authority.

Now jump forward hundreds of years to England. King Henry V111, well-known for his efforts to oust the Roman Catholic church from England, whatever his reasons. Was he revolting against apostolic authority (Like the Corinthian congregation at the end of the first century - according to Clement?) What do you think?

But go forward in time, to Elizabeth the first. The church in England was now controlled by men who were like the rebellious Christians of ancient Corinth. From the viewpoint of the Lord (the father or Jesus - take your choice) were the men who rebelled against Rome right in what they did, according to Clement? This (sort of) new church in England, the fore-runner of the contemporary Anglican Church, then set about murdering many of those who remained faithful to Catholicism. In doing so were they like the ancient rebellious Christians of Corinth.

(See the HistoryExtra web-site: Elizabeth I’s war with England’s Catholics:

England's Elizabethan Catholics were public enemy number one. Their Masses were banned and their priests were executed. Jessie Childs reveals what life was like for 'recusants' and 'church papists' in a hostile Protestant state

https://www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/elizabeth-is-war-with-englands-catholics/

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Answering the questions I asked is difficult, Who was right? Who was wrong?

I'd say (these days) they were all deceived into thinking that they'd found "truth" when they had not. I don't believe any of the crap they were arguing about, they were all deceived.

Do you know of any church that KNOWS God?

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