Day One After Armageddon

by Shakita 28 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  berylblue

  Now here's a question This always bothered me. Using the example of the Flood, JWs were told that few would be saved at Armegeddon. Also quoting Jesus when he said that few are the ones finding the road to everlasting life. T

  However, the WTS would say that the "vast majority" of those "tested" after the thousand year reign would be faithful.

  So I'm thinking, well HOW IS THAT FAIR? And how does that even make sense?

  The people at the end of this system are living in a nightmare. The people at the end of the 1000 year reign would, supposedly, be living in Paradisaic conditions free of human imperfection. Now, while the WTS does not bother to explain what the loosed demons would be up to or how bad that time period will be, (no, it's not discussed in the Bible but when has the WTS ever had a problem "filling in the blanks" before?)

  To my mind that is in no way, shape or form a fair test. The odds are completely with those who were fortunate enough to die prior to A. and have been resurrected. Yet the poor persons who had to endure the terrible "last days" in this system but did not become JWs are dead meat. Literally.

  Also, only JWs will be saved at A. Okay, but how about those who would have become JWs had time gone on? Is it fair that they die because Armegeddon came before a time in their lives when they could get to know Jehovah?

  I asked a few "good" Witnesses about this. (You can be damned sure I didn't ask any elders; I'd have gotten into a heap of trouble.)

  They all told me that it's what you are doing NOW that is important. No matter if you were a good JW for years, but stopped going because you're suicidally depressed because your husband beats the hell out of you and your children. That does not come in to play, according to those with whom I spoke.

  Anyway....

  Further reasoning on this, I came to the conclusion that if A. had come when I was, say, 10, I would have been destroyed. Hell, I didn't even know what a JW was then. But as my parents were Catholics I, apparently, was doomed.

  Yet I did go on to become a a JW. At that time (when I was a "good" JW), my "heart" was apparently in a good condition, but prior to becoming baptized it was not?

  Either I have a good heart or not. End of story. True, circumstances can change and embitter a person, and "good" and honest persons can make bad decisions, but generally, in the final analysis, a truly honest hearted person stays that way.

  I'm typing fast and I'm rambling here. If anyone can help me crystalize my thoughts and give them some shape and substance, I'd truly appreciate it.

  Beryl
• 

  heathen

  I find these day after threads to be most entertaining .Kinda like a twilite episode .Can't wait to see the next installment.
• 

  Shakita

  Beryl Blue,

  The people at the end of this system are living in a nightmare. The people at the end of the 1000 year reign would, supposedly, be living in Paradisaic conditions free of human imperfection. Now, while the WTS does not bother to explain what the loosed demons would be up to or how bad that time period will be, (no, it's not discussed in the Bible but when has the WTS ever had a problem "filling in the blanks" before?)

  To my mind that is in no way, shape or form a fair test. The odds are completely with those who were fortunate enough to die prior to A. and have been resurrected. Yet the poor persons who had to endure the terrible "last days" in this system but did not become JWs are dead meat. Literally.

  I am in complete agreement with you. The individuals that happened to be stuck in the horrendous "last days" would lose out. The individuals resurrected into the "new earth" would live problem free lives for at least one thousand years until Satan was let loose from the abyss.

  I have written previously that the ransom sacrifice is meaningless if God would destroy the majority of his creation at Armageddon. If Jesus died for all mankind, how is it that only Jehovah's Witnesses get to live? Remember the qualifications for everlasting life are not as demanding as the JW's claim. Why would Jesus say that the person that gives someone a glass of water because he believes in me should by no means lose his reward. Why did Jesus say at John 6:40: "For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." I see nothing there about the preaching work or if a person belongs to a particular religion. I feel that the JW's are spiritual terrorists that attempt to scare others into submission by their take on Armageddon. It is that stark terror that keeps many rank and file JW's in line and prevents many from leaving their fold.

  Mr. Shakita
• 

  heathen

  Shikita-- The second resurection also includes all the people that ever lived ,some would be resurrected to life others to judgement .The ancient jews and pagans and such didn't have to believe in jesus to be promised paradise .I think that the people are going to be perfect like adam and eve when they are resurrected and not like what the WT says that they will be brought back in like condition as to when they died. The wtbs says people will be resurrected with all the tendencies and imperfection as when they died and also will have an ageing reversal so as to grow younger during the 1000 years . This does not hold up to reason at all.
• 

  goofy

  Blondie thanks for posting your story. It was 9/11 which really got me thinking about how I believed. I left for other reasons but when 9/11 came and I could not stop crying or having nightmare for months after seeing those planes crash into the buildings and listenning to songs I realised that Armageddon would destroy, should I survive. Two buildings and 6000 people destroyed me inside and forever changed me, and I knew noone personally, I cannot even imagine watching the whole world, and my coworkers and friends and then being happy. Just me.
• 

  blondie

  goofy, I'm sorry the pain 9-11 has caused. People in the US have lived long with the misconception that the strength of the US would protect them from all attacks. I have seen this when people are stalked and killed even though they used everything available to them from law enforcement. It shakes us up to the core of our personal security. I have seen this when a family I knew were all instantly killed when a drunk drunk struck their vehicle. How could they prepare or protect themselves?

  A side note on the destruction at Armageddon.

  The period before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE is called a judgment period similar to the period of time before the Flood and Armageddon. The comparison is made that only the righteous survived. Yet 97,000 Jews survived the destruction of Jerusalem. So the analogy is not accurate unless you consider that non-JWs will survive Armageddon.

  And the judgement period of Sodom and Gomorrah. The WTS doctrine has those who died in and out of Gehenna several times making me wonder if those how die at Armageddon will have resurrection.

  It is the unimagined local events that make me shudder, a young mother and father abandoning their child in a porta-potty, a husband hammering his estranged wife's head in but legally using her money to bail himself out, a man with 10 driving while drunk convictions still driving and killing a 3-year-old boy, etc. How to we handle such things, keeping our world view of fellow humans one of hope and love? There are no easy answers.

  Blondie
• 

  Shakita

  Heathen,

  Shikita-- The second resurection also includes all the people that ever lived ,some would be resurrected to life others to judgement .The ancient jews and pagans and such didn't have to believe in jesus to be promised paradise .I think that the people are going to be perfect like adam and eve when they are resurrected and not like what the WT says that they will be brought back in like condition as to when they died.

  I think that none of us can be dogmatic about the resurrection. The WT thinks that it has it all figured out. Most of us are confronted with situations beyond our control. We muddle through each day just to survive. How can anyone live up to the standards set forth by the WT. It is impossible. I personally feel that God is going to be far more merciful than anyone has imagined. I feel that the resurrection will benefit most of mankind. Not just a select few. Otherwise, Jesus's sacrifice was in vain.

  Blondie,

  The period before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE is called a judgment period similar to the period of time before the Flood and Armageddon. The comparison is made that only the righteous survived. Yet 97,000 Jews survived the destruction of Jerusalem. So the analogy is not accurate unless you consider that non-JWs will survive Armageddon.

  You raise a valid point Blondie. All the "unrighteous" should have died. Again what right does any group of people have to say that only they will survive Armageddon? This is the judgment of Jesus when he returns with the holy angels. The interesting thing to note is that ones favorable judgment is based on doing good to Christ's brothers. Not doing good to Christ's brothers results in an adverse judgment. Where does it say at Matthew 25 that ones preaching work or allegiance to the Watchtower Society will result in either an adverse or favorable judgment?

  Also, how are Christ's brothers here to be understood as the most prominent members? Christ said that the righteous came to him when he was hungry or thirsty or naked or sick or in prison. He said that to the extent that you did it to one of the least ones of these my brothers you did it to me. Again, how are the most prominent members, the Governing Body, considered to be the least ones of Christ's brothers? The least ones of Christ's brothers would be those that are not considered as prominent, highly visible ones. These would be humble, down to earth Christians, that didn't have much of this world's means or that didn't have a position of power or prominence. And yet, Jesus's love for them would be strong. Anyone that would close the door of their tender compassion on these ones would be met with an adverse judgment.

  I suppose when Jesus returns for judgment he will say something like: "Now let me see: You have shown extraordinary love, compassion, kindness and concern for the least ones. You have sacrificed yourself in their behalf. You have demonstrated your deep love for my Father and for me. Oh, I am so sorry, you have done all these things, but you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses. You're dead. Baboom! " Anyone can see the lunacy of the JW's argument. I'll leave the judgment of people at the big A to God and his Son.

  Mr. Shakita
• 

  berylblue

  kindness and concern for the least ones

  Mr. and Mrs. Shakita,

  Always so grateful for your input.
  
  Now, if memory serves me correctly, did the WTS say that the "least ones" were the annointed? And go on to say that since most of us will never come across such a person, it is our "helping" them by going out in service that is the act of kindness to which Jesus was referring?

  Rosemarie
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  Shakita

  Hi Rosemarie,

  The 95 wt Feb 15, page15 defines who are Christ's brothers that we have to do good to to receive God's favorable blessing. (according to the WT)

  "Truly I say to you, To the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me." (Matthew 25:40) Because they unselfishly render aid to Christ’s anointed brothers, those of the great crowd are judged to have done good to Jesus himself. This helps them to have a secure relationship with Jesus Christ and Jehovah God. They have been privileged to join the anointed remnant in becoming God’s Witnesses and bearers of his name.—Isaiah 43:10, 11; Joel 2:31, 32.

  That is the WT's explanation of doing good to the least of Christ's brothers. Really, they have missed the point of Jesus's illustration. How could the least ones, which would logically represent a minority of Jesus's brothers include ALL of the anointed. Evidently, we show our true Christian love for our brothers by giving to those that can't give anything back to us. Jesus accordingly will reward those that show such unselfish love.

  Mr. Shakita
• 

  PopeOfEruke

  Day 32343423 after Armageddon:

  "...bored, bored....I'm so bored.....can't stand it any more...........maybe I should learn another musical instrument, no wait, I already learnt the piano, guitar, saxophone, accordian, drums, Lowry organ, Wurlitzer organ, Hammond organ, violin, cello, triangle, bass, glockenspiel, sitar, clavichord, cymbalon and piccolo, here are NO MORE INSTRUMENTS to learn.......what can I do today!???? I wished I could visit some old people but every freakin' person here is 30 years old........how I would love to play ball with my kids, but there are no kids either........nothing to freakin eat but FRUIT!!! I hate FRUIT!!!! I want a steak - big, rare and juicy, yes! A T-Bone!!! Aaarrggghhh! THIS IS LIVING hell...........wait, I have an idea........I can make something, yes, I'll make a machine gun.......and bullets, yes, dum dum bullets, thats it! Then I'll pay a visit to the Kingdom hall!!!! Eternity eh?? I'll show THEM eternity.......BWAA HAA HAA!!! BWAA HAA HAA...."

  Pope