We never once pushed our child to get baptized. I am so glad now because I would not be allowed to have his support that we need at this time. NO df, no problem. He had enough drama growing up with the stand alone in the hall for the flag, no parties, no worldly friends, no anything so at a teenage year, he said nomore meetings and we agreed- we did not throw him out but worked around the problems and life went on.
Only baptised JWs will make it?
It used to be if an elder did not preside over his own household in a fine manner then his position would be called into question.
these days this has changed. There are elders who raised children who now adults who never got baptised and still living at home living lives that if they are baptised then they would be shunned. The father is still an elder.
and still living at home
If DF would have to kick him out or resign as elder. If never baptized, it depends. But if living a debauched life would have to kick him out.
There are now elders with grown up children moved back in or still living at home who are not living by JW rules, and the brother is not taken off. This is a big change. There is such a shortage of brothers.
anyway getting back to the topic of this thread if it was ever a thing were you don’t have to be baptised to make it through then many more would choose not to be baptised. I think this is happening now anyway with many young ones putting off baptism or just not getting baptised altogether so as not to risk getting shunned.
I think the situ is the official line is only 8 million baptised JWs and they’re too young to be baptised children will make it through. The other 8 billion people will be slaughtered by the governing body and the angels.
Most JWs don’t believe this or at least want to think about this or explain it away that some good people who are not baptised JWs will still make it, but that’s not what the official doctrine is.
what about the over a billion people in China who never got a witness are they all going to be slaughtered?
There seems to be a core of, often past, GB members who feel that if a person is not on the ark (= in the org), then he or she is a goner. However, there are others, perhaps in the Writing Department or on the current GB, who may be more sensitive to passages like Mark 9:38-41 (= Luke 9:49-50, and compare Matt. 10:40-42) where those outside the org seem to have some degree of God's approval.
More to the point, the famous Parable of the Sheep and Goats at the end of the "signs of the last days" discourse of Jesus in Matthew's Gospel (chapters 24-25), if read in context and outside of WTS doctrine, has two groups of people, both of whom do not realize that they were in the past interacting with Christ's brothers. One group gets judged adversely for not treating them well; the other is unexpectedly rewarded for unknowingly having treated them well. How could this last group have been "aboard the ark" if they unknowingly treated Christ's brothers well? In the past Fred Franz interpreted the favored group as the other sheep/great crowd, but that on its face cannot fly, given the lack of knowledge both groups had of the identity of Christ's brothers.
I cannot and generally do not wish to keep up with the always speculative and changing interpretations of scripture that the org today puts forth, especially given the deep brainlessness of the current GB, but I seem to recall that the aforementioned interpretation of Matt. 25:31-46 has been thrown out. But it hasn't really been replaced either with any kind of interpretation that makes sense.
The upshot is that there may well be some Bethel heavies who are more in tune with scripture and who have a more lenient view of salvation for those not being in the org. But coming right out and saying that there will be people not in the org who will be saved would be very problematic for the GB controllers.
Jesus started the congregation (his body) back in the first century. The message to "the congregations" in Revelation isn't just for "Jehovah's Witnesses" as an org. It's to all "the congregations" that can trace their origin back to that time in the first century. All who claim to be Christian can trace their origin back to that time, not just "Jehovah's Witnesses".
The direction to the seven congregations shows that some congregations have sectarianism. Some have immorality. Some have idolatry.
Jesus said he had some faithful sheep scattered in all those places. He knows where they are.
"The congregation" doesn't just mean "baptized Jehovah's Witnesses." Jesus knows who is one of his sheep. He didn't receive the kingdom in 1914. When he receives the kingdom in heaven, then he will send out his angels and they will remove the weedlike false teachings and the hypocritical people from all the "Christians" and then "at that time the righteous ones will shine like the sun in the Kingdom of their Father."
As regards "non-Christians" and whether they will be "saved"...
If Abraham could be God's friend before being baptized, then a person can be a sheep without being baptized.
"I have other sheep, who are not of this fold..."
A great crowd of "unbelievers" went out of Egypt with the Israelites. They didn't have time to have a long history of "works that befit repentance". They didn't have time to learn everything about Jehovah. At the last minute, when they saw all their idols destroyed and a great tribulation on Egypt, they said "we will go with you people, for we have heard God is with you people." It was enough for Jehovah.
1 in 4 people are muslin and out of the other 3 people only one or 2 claim to be something close to a Christian.
There are undoubtedly some good people who are far better people than many of the 8 million baptised JWs. Are they all going to be slaughtered?
As of 2023, 2 billion or about 25% of the world population are Muslims. Can the Borg really claim they will all be slaughtered?
A great crowd of non-Israelites were saved out of Egypt.
A great crowd of non-Christians will be saved out of Armageddon.
Jehovah hasn't changed.
I think this is probably the most damaging point when debunking JWs, do you really think everyone who is not a baptised JW will be slaughtered very soon?
Many JWs will answer no that’s not what we believe but actually that is what the official teaching is.
I even wonder if this teaching could be classified as religious hatred
Jesus said there would be religious people who would show hatred and who thought they were doing it "for God". There are individuals within many different groups who show such religious hatred.
We have a choice to either be part of the solution or part of the problem.
Jesus recommended the following: "Love your enemies" and "if your enemy is thirsty, give him something to drink" etc...
It is entirely proper to point out hypocrisy and false religious teachings, and to report abuse to the authorities and media that others may not fall into the same traps, but there is also a danger in going too far and becoming "a religious hater" inciting hatred for individuals in the very group we are exposing.
"Pay attention to yourselves. If your brother commits a sin, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him."
In general, people in different religious groups, including the borg, have not yet repented of their false doctrines. They may repent in the future when Jesus makes very clear which doctrines are false. We need to be ready to embrace the religious people who wake up, regardless of what religious group they belong to (or don't belong to) at present.