Some thoughts on the message of doom

by JeffT 49 Replies latest jw friends

  • JeffT
    JeffT

    Fisherman:

    I became a Jehovah's Witness in 1973, the year I graduated from Washington State University. So I was a college educated adult. I knew how to study and make informed decisions. I was in a difficult situation, but I believed the message as it was preached. God, I was told, intended to destroy the wicked people ruining His creation. The Bible, I learned, was very specific, this final war between Good and Evil would take place in 1975.

    I know you are told the WTBS never said that. Here's a news flash: THEY'RE LYING TO YOU! I was there, I know what was said. I left the Witness in 1988 when it was clear that the world wasn't going to end.

    My wife and I attended an evangelical church for a time after we left the Watchtower. The pastor made a good observation one time. He said that he believed we might well be in the last days, but he would make no specific prophesy for one very good reason. In Bible times if a prophet predicted something that didn't happen, the Israelites would take him to the local stone quarry and make him part of it.

  • Lee Marsh
    Lee Marsh
    which homes you would like to move into one these wicked people are destroyed

    Not too helpful with no power for fridge, stove, dishwasher, washing machine and dryer, microwave, toaster, air fryer, iron, TV, radio, computer lights as well as all the other things we have in our homes.

    No need for the car either no gas or even pumps to get it into the car. And even if you have an electric car... well that won't last too long.

    Sewing machine. Just how will they make clothes and sheets.

    We live in a world where most people cannot function without electricity. The learning curve will be very steep.

    I was there, waiting in 1975... patiently, faithfully... and nothing happened.... and nothing happened... and nothing happened.

    Oops it was a few misguided JWs. Yea Right. How convenient they can wipe the minds of gullible JWs. Over. and Over. and over again

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Liked:

    "...I was there, waiting in 1975... patiently, faithfully... and nothing happened.... and nothing happened... and nothing happened.

    Oops it was a few misguided JWs. Yea Right..."

  • JW GoneBad
    JW GoneBad

    Liked:

    "...My wife and I attended an evangelical church for a time after we left the Watchtower. The pastor made a good observation one time. He said that he believed we might well be in the last days, but he would make no specific prophesy for one very good reason. In Bible times if a prophet predicted something that didn't happen, the Israelites would take him to the local stone quarry and make him part of it."
  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    JeffT I notice that you wrote that the WT taught the "... final war between Good and Evil would take place in 1975." Do you mean that was stated in WT literature? If so, please state the specific sources so I can read them. Or, was it stated only vocally, such as in talks in JW conventions and JW assemblies, and in special talks in the kingdom halls?

    Interestingly while at a thrift store I found Awake! bound volumes for the years of 1966, 1968, and 1969. In one of those volumes I noticed an article which practically explicitly said the end would come in 1975. I think that is the most explicit statement I've seen in WT about 1975 being the year of the end. I think I saw it in the volume for 1966 (but I don't know which article it is in). An article in the volume for the year 1968 (or 1969?) was somewhat less explicit, but it was still very bold about 1975. I already had at home Awake! volumes for those years (but while at the store I was sure I had them) and continue to have them, but for some reason the content of the volumes that I found at the store didn't look familiar to me (except maybe for one article). I thus bought those specific volumes I found at the store.

    Fisherman, I noticed you stated that the angels direct the preaching work and that you mentioned belief in the power of prayer, and I understand why you believe such. I am also aware of what is called "New Thought" and it's idea of "The Law of Attraction". In a way it is a similar idea to prayer. That so-called law is something I wonder about because of certain of experiences I have. The following recent example illustrates such.

    From last Thursday through last Friday I was aware that I have the strong desire to obtain a copy of multiple WT books which I used to own. Namely, Babylon The Great Has Fallen, Then Is Finished the Mystery of God (which is not available on WT Library CD and not on the Wt's JW website), The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah, Paradise Restored To Mankind by Theocracy, and The Harp of God. Besides those 5 specific books, in wanted to obtain multiple books by Rutherford (beside The Harp of God"). I wanted to obtain the 5 specific books because I have come to miss them and find it interesting to read certain things in them (including abandoned ideas in them which I think are strange, including ones I could quote on this site to try to get JWs to question their religion; but also ideas which make sense to me and are informative). Another reason why I wanted those books, and especially also the books by Rutherford, is because some people on this site say that the WT urged JWs to part with old WT books so that the WT can hide the WT's past flawed statements from people. Supposedly the WT (including working through elders) wants the books to be rounded up so they can be destroyed, in order to keep believing JWs from reading them. I don't want the WT to have that power and I don't want all of those old WT books (which in my mind expose flawed past beliefs of the WT) to be destroyed (while the WT continues to exist). Also, a few days ago I started wanting a copy of the 2013 NWT 'silver sword' edition. I thus I used the concept of 'the Law of Attraction" to bring those books to the thrift store I visit on occasion, so I could buy them there cheaply (even though I get a free band new one by entering a kingdom hall).

    I visualized in my mind the books I wanted to find at the store in a future visit. I also waited a few days before going to the store, in order to give the universe time to arrange people to bring their unwanted copies of those books to the store and for the store to get them ready for sale in the shopping area. Last Saturday (yesterday) early in the day I obtained a strong urge to go to that store to see if the books were there (or arrive there later that day). I had a strong feeling that I needed to get to the store early that morning, for I felt (intuitively) there was a high likelihood the books would be there. Past experiences with me wanting to find specific books (and also electronics) at the store, is that when I had such a strong feeling that I must go to the store to find such, about 50% or 33% of the time the specific hard to find items I wanted were there! I thus went to the store.

    At that store hundreds of books are often brought out to the sale area during the day but rarely any WT books by Rutherford). I arrived about when the store opened but no books were present. I later left to get food to eat. When I returned books were present including old WT books including the bound volumes I mentioned. But I didn't see any of the books I wanted, except for a very good condition copy of the 2013 NWT 'silver sword' (which was left in an abandoned shopping cart). I later put that Bible in my cart. When I had arrived (after getting food) the books in the shopping area were in the process of being removed from the shopping area, to be replaced with other items. I wondered if the old books I had wanted were buried under the other books which were being taking away, before I could search thoroughly for find them. I decided to wait to see if my books would be brought out later. Later many more books were brought out - including 4 of the 5 remaining specific books I wanted, plus the following books by Rutherford: Creation, Preparation, and Volume 2 of Vindication! I was astounded! I placed all of those books in my cart. There were also "You May Survive Armageddon into God's New World" and "Your Name Be Sanctified". I also put those books in my cart. There was also the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses and I put it in my cart (since it has a history of the WT organization and has a good resale price online), even though I own the one I obtained from my former kingdom hall in 1975. There were also a number of other old WT books (mostly ones which I already own, plus some Watchtower bound volumes which I used to own) which I did not put in my cart for purchasing.

    But I still hadn't found the Then Is Finished the Mystery of God book - one of the specific books I really wanted. I remained at the store for hours, all the way to closing time! I was determined to wait to see if more books would be brought and to see if any of those were ones I wanted. More books were later brought out - including the Then Is Finished the Mystery of God book! Wow! I put it in my cart.

    Another book I found was the book called The Science of Getting Rich, which is a New Thought book (including the idea of the Law of Attraction) by Wattles. That copy was two books in one, consisting of the Original Text and of the Updated Version which is "Revised For the 21st Century". I thought that it's presence there in the store that day along with the WT books which found as a result of using the Law of Attraction was a sign that I should buy that book. I thus put in my cart.

    I also found and added to my cart the following books, My Inventions and other Writings & Lectures (by Nikola Tesla), an autobiography by Albert Einstein, a biography by Isaacson about Einstein, Secrets for Profiting in Bull and Bear Markets (by Stan Weinstein), and a DVD of Al Gore's documentary called "An Inconvenient Truth".

    During the last hour that the store was open there was a very long checkout line. At one point in that line while I was standing near some of the books I noticed one Rutherford book which I hadn't seen earlier that day in the store (a shopper probably removed it from his/her cart). It is the book called Deliverance! and I put it in my cart even though I already a copy of that book at my home.

    I purchased each of the above mentioned books which put into my cart.

    It are experiences of mine like that mentioned above which make wonder if the Law of Attraction is true. To me, from an atheistic naturalist point of view it can only be true if everyone (including plants and nonhuman animals) and everything in the universe is connected together in some way as one whole. Perhaps quantum entanglement and the fabric of the universe together are such a connection. The idea is also that the universe is one. I have been thinking of that concept off and on for several years. Soon after I brought home the book by Wattles I noticed that it's Preface by Wattles says the following.

    "The monistic theory of the universe, the theory that One is All and that All is One; that one Substance manifests itself as the seeming many elements of the material world, is of Hindu origin and has been gradually winning its way into the thought of the western world for two hundred years." [Note: the book was first published in 1910.] That agrees with my idea of the naturalistic explanation I stated in the prior paragraph. However, I already have been owning for years another edition of Wattles' book (and other books about the Law of Attraction and The Secret) and thus I had read that idea before, but I had forgotten it was a part of Wattles' idea.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Perhaps some think that God, an angel, or some other spirit directed matters to cause me to find and obtain the books.

  • resolute Bandicoot
    resolute Bandicoot

    Fishy said - "The angels direct to which homes people might respond. The work is done after prayer."

    Oh that is nonsence on steroids, did the angels direct me to the guy that showed me the loud end of his gun? Did the angels direct me to the pretty young woman that answered her front door dressed only in her tattoos? Twice this has happened! - Probably the highpoint of my door to door experience.

    RB

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Paragraph 8 of page 154 of the First Edition of the You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth book (copyright 1982) says the following. "Which generation did Jesus mean? He meant the generation of people who were living in 1914. Those persons yet remaining of that generation are now very old. However, some of them will still be alive to see the end of this wicked system. So of this we can be certain: Shortly now there will be a sudden end to all wickedness and wicked people at Armageddon." That quote is from personal copy of the book. I also saw those words in a copy of the book at the store I was at yesterday (but I noticed that the book had one illustration different from my copy; the one I saw at the store had a picture [of a goat's head?] on a nightstand [on page 244?]; that illustration also had a black man in it, unlike the one in my book). I was baptized before that book came out (I had studied the Truth book).

    By the way, today I noticed that the concordance (index of Bible words) in the 2013 NWT is about only one fourth of the number of pages of the 1984 NWT regular edition. That is unfortunate, but the 2013 edition does include a "Glossary of Bible Terms".

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    RB, When Jesus restored the ear that Peter cut off, nobody noticed. Imagine Jesus resurrecting the dead and performing miracles in public view. That is why Jesus replied to the Pharisees The kingdom of God is on your midsts. So it is not a coincidence. —Albeit, my point which I highlighted with my other posts is a reply to the perception that JW out in the ministry talk about people getting destroyed and JW keeping their property. I think I’ve replied to that.

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    Jef, It is not about JW interpreting correct or incorrect what the Bible means. I think that for the most part, JW have deciphered the Bible.

    The one and only issue now is WHEN. When will God act. JW have been coming up with dates but that is not prophecy or false prophecy when the dates dod not realize but only interpretation.

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