The Truth about September 11 ( 9-11 )

by UnDisfellowshipped 58 Replies latest social current

  • teejay
    teejay

    If I or my family had a history of having real power -- or money -- I would try to manipulate events as much as possible to maintain my (our) vantage point over our lesser ("unfortunate"; "poor"; "backward") countrymen, competitors,... enemies. To do otherwise would be foolish and short-sighted.

    Taking it a step further... if 100 years ago my grandfather had real money, quite likely he would have felt the same as I do now. Having money, he would have had the privilege of circulating in certain circles (golf clubs, associations, social events, churches) where men like him had the same hope of perpetuating *his* family's advantage over the masses ... into the indefinite future. What family head alive wants any different for his daughters and sons?

    As far as I'm concerned, it's not a stretch to believe that, over the last century or two, wealthy / influential / politically connected families have associated together -- socially, politically, professionally (commercially). It's not a stretch to believe that these families have expressed similar (identical) interests for their particular (and privileged) families. It's also not a stretch to think that they worked to secure for their progeny the advantages they themselves enjoyed back then. It's what I would do (and am doing even now).

    On a larger scale, is it a stretch to think that nations with similar interests and goals just might do the same?

    Just curious.

  • mattnoel
    mattnoel

    Dakota, no disrespect to yourself but I think you have read me wrong there, what I was saying was that if there was no plane that crashed into the Pentagon then where did they hide all the passengers and the plane that went missing ?

    On your second point with regards to the IRA being from England I have lived in the midst of them from my early years, all has gone quiet now seemingly but I for one was unfortunate to be involved in a bombing in '97, where I was evacuated from my office and walked past the lorry holding the explosives, we were sent back in and then sent home, I walked up the road to get my coach and it went off. I saw the devastation personally and felt it and know that, that was no conspiracy, besides the IRA did confess to it as they always do.

    I dont want to come across rude but that is how I personall see things. There will always be conspiracy theories to absolutely everything that happens, we have to judge for ourselves what we believe to be the true account, a lot of things we will just never know.

    E-Mail, well I dont know you but you seem like a decent bloke, you can chose to believe everything the press tells you but remember that they are controlled by the government as to what they can and cant show, they are also most of the time very patriotic. The events of 9/11 we just dont know what happened, what we were told by the press could all be completely accurate, but on the other hand the stories we heard could of been engineered, at the end of the day bush etc are all human, you just need to look at the facts and decide for yourself, just dont believe all that your told on TV.

  • berylblue
    berylblue
    Just because I don't listen to every whacko conspiracy theory that comes around the pike, does'nt mean I believe everything the US gov. says.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you. Well said. While I believe that the US Gov't was indeed culpable in the sense that this could have been prevented, I just can't believe some of the outlandish conspiracy theories I've heard.

    The truth most likely is, as it usually is, somewhere inbetween.

    Beryl

  • seawolf
    seawolf
    More anti-semitic prattle.

    I wondered how long it would be before someone cried anti-semitic.

  • avishai
    avishai

    Listen, I dont' agree w/ much of what the Government of Israel does. However, blaming everything wrong that happens on the JEWS, 13 million people vs. 6 billion is just absurd & a time tested constant thing used to not face what is really happening. Saying "The Jews did it" has been an excuse for at least 2,000 yrs. According to some, they were responsible for the black plague, the fall of the roman empire, & many, many, many other things, including natural disasters. It's a constant that has barely let up in our modern day, & is always started w/ these kind of comments, then escalates into full fledged jew-baiting. Look at jjrizzos constant comments that "I'm not anti-semitic" on this site, now go over to the "other" site, & see how rabid he's gotten. That is a perfect example of the natural progression of these arguments. Read your history, man.

    P.s. Apologies to Simon for referencing the "other" site.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed
    Dakota, no disrespect to yourself but I think you have read me wrong there, what I was saying was that if there was no plane that crashed into the Pentagon then where did they hide all the passengers and the plane that went missing ?

    Maybe I am misreading you, but the thought that there was no plane that hit the Pentagon has been thoroughly debunked.

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/israel.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/atta.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/flight.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/fema.htm

    http://www.snopes.com/rumors/citibank.htm

    On your second point with regards to the IRA being from England I have lived in the midst of them from my early years,

    I mentioned that solely to show a point as to how anything can become a conspiracy theory. I have no love for the IRA and even though they have calmed down lately, there are also a couple splinter groups from them that desire to keep the violence going. Elsewhere here, I have called for them to also be included in any war on terrorists.

  • William Penwell
    William Penwell

    I have to say I find the conspiracy theories hard to believe in that it would take too many people as this article outlined to be able to pull it off. If someone was to pull something like off they would want the fewest people possible involved. An inner circle of a few persons that would be the power behind the administration. Italics mine, underlined added.

    As I posted in an earlier post, after the breakup of the USSR and the cold war was over a group of men in Washington -- calling themselves "neo-Reaganites," "neo-conservatives," or simply "hawks" -- set out to achieve the most dramatic change in American foreign policy in half a century: a grand strategy, formally articulated in the National Security Strategy released last September, that is based on preemption rather than containment and calls for the bold assertion of American power and influence around the world. Having served three Republican presidents over the course of two decades, this group of close advisers -- among them Vice President Dick Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, and perhaps most importantly, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz

    At the time the Gulf War ended in 1991, Powell was the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and Wolfowitz was deputy secretary of defense for policy, the third-highest ranking civilian in then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney's Pentagon. Powell was instrumental in stopping the war short of going to Baghdad and removing Saddam Hussein. Wolfowitz and other hardliners were less than enthusiastic about that decision.

    Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz has been at the center of Pentagon strategic planning in both Bush administrations. A hawk on the use of U.S. military power, Wolfowitz took the lead in drafting the 1992 Defense Planning Guidance on America's military posture toward the world. The draft said that containment was an old idea, a relic of the cold war. It advocated that America should maintain military strength beyond challenge and use it to preempt provocations from rogue states with weapons of mass destruction. And it stated that, if necessary, the U.S. should be prepared to act alone. Leaked to the press, Wolfowitz's draft was rewritten and softened by then-Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney. Ten years later, many analysts see a strong resemblance between President Bush's 2002 National Security Strategy and Wolfowitz's 1992 draft.

    Key Points/Excerpts:

    · The number one objective of U.S. post-Cold War political and military strategy should be preventing the emergence of a rival superpower.

    "Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include Western Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union, and Southwest Asia.

    "There are three additional aspects to this objective: First the U.S must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive posture to protect their legitimate interests. Second, in the non-defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and economic order. Finally, we must maintain the mechanisms for deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional or global role."

    alt

    · Another major U.S. objective should be to safeguard U.S. interests and promote American values.

    According to the draft document, the U.S. should aim "to address sources of regional conflict and instability in such a way as to promote increasing respect for international law, limit international violence, and encourage the spread of democratic forms of government and open economic systems."

    The draft outlines several scenarios in which U.S. interests could be threatened by regional conflict: "access to vital raw materials, primarily Persian Gulf oil; proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles, threats to U.S. citizens from terrorism or regional or local conflict, and threats to U.S. society from narcotics trafficking."

    The draft relies on seven scenarios in potential trouble spots to make its argument -- with the primary case studies being Iraq and North Korea.

    alt

    · If necessary, the United States must be prepared to take unilateral action.

    There is no mention in the draft document of taking collective action through the United Nations.

    The document states that coalitions "hold considerable promise for promoting collective action," but it also states the U.S. "should expect future coalitions to be ad hoc assemblies" formed to deal with a particular crisis and which may not outlive the resolution of the crisis.

    The document states that what is most important is "the sense that the world order is ultimately backed by the U.S." and that "the United States should be postured to act independently when collective action cannot be orchestrated" or in a crisis that calls for quick response.

    That was pre September 11, 2001.

    With the election of George W. Bush in 2000, however, the hawks saw a new opportunity to implement a stronger, forward-leaning American stance in the world. Yet during the new president's first year in office, skirmishing between Colin Powell's State Department and Rumsfeld's Pentagon -- where Wolfowitz is now the second-ranking civilian -- left the adminstration's foreign policy stalled in a kind of internal gridlock.

    All that would change on Sept. 11, 2001.

    Four days after the attacks on New York and the Pentagon, President Bush and his Cabinet held a war council at Camp David. "From the first moments after Sept. 11, there was a group of people, both inside the administration and out, who believed that the war on terrorism should target Iraq -- in fact, should target Iraq first," says Kenneth Pollack, author of The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq (2002) and a former member of the National Security Council staff in the Clinton administration.

    The Bush Doctrine

    Released Sept. 17, 2002, twenty months after President Bush took office, the 33-page "National Security Strategy of the United States" (NSS) offers the administration's first comprehensive rationale for a new, aggressive approach to national security. The new strategy calls for pre-emptive action against hostile states and terror groups, and it states that the U.S. "will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by acting pre-emptively." The NSS also focuses on how diplomacy and foreign aid can and should be used to project American values, including "a battle for the future of the Muslim world."

    Some within the Bush administration argue that a successful regime change in Iraq could be a test case for a transformed, democratic Middle East, or maybe even a catalyst for free and open societies elsewhere in the world.

    Before 9/11 the US administration needed some catastrophe to be able to push their new plan. Was it a mere coincident 9/11 happened or was it planned? I leave that up to you.

  • Rihannsu
    Rihannsu

    Crap like the conspiracy theory that the original poster mentioned only does one thing. It spits on the graves of all those that died, especially all those firefighters that bravely gave their lives to try to save others.

    That was complete and utter bulls h i t and even makes the crap we used to listen to in the KH look normal....

  • seawolf
    seawolf
    Listen, I dont' agree w/ much of what the Government of Israel does.

    A lot of people would consider this statement to be anti-semitic, too. No?

    I think you got a bit too carried away. The word 'jew' wasn't mentioned at all on page one and the word 'Israeli' was mentioned once (twice if you include the quote in your post). If people are blaming the jews for everything from global warming to the teletubbies then that's stupid and the people need to find a new hobby.

    I don't know anything about jirzo or really about what went on. I read some of it but found what he was saying to not make much sense. IIRC I recall wondering if he was a non-native speaker of English? I never got involved in it since it was worthless IMHO

    I've never gone to the other board so no idea what goes on there.

    oh, and I know my history, thanks.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    I haven't had time to read all the posts yet -- but I'm definitely going to do so soon.

    Quotes from the News Article I posted above:

    The attacks of 9/11 COULD NOT HAVE HAPPENED without the willful failure of the American defense system. In Washington, Air Force pilots demanded to fly but were ordered to stand down. Yet instead of prosecuting the president and military leaders for this unprecedented dereliction of duty, military leaders were promoted and the president was praised for presiding over a defense system that suspiciously failed the most crucial test in its history. None of the deaths would have happened without the deliberate unplugging of America's air defenses.

    Planes that lose contact with control towers are usually intercepted by fighter jets inside of ten minutes, as the incident with the golfer's plane a few months earlier so clearly demonstrated. Yet on 9/11, the jetliners that struck New York were allowed to proceed unmolested for more than a half-hour, and the plane that supposedly crashed in Washington was not intercepted for more than an hour and forty minutes after it was widely known that four planes had been hijacked.
    _________________________________________

    I personally have done research into that information -- and it is FACT, which I can prove from the information below:

    Where were the U.S. Fighter Jets at when the Hi-Jacked Jet was flying towards the Pentagon?

    Andrews Air Force Base is a huge military installation just 10 miles from the Pentagon. On September 11th there were two entire squadrons of combat-ready fighter jets at Andrews. Their job was to protect the skies over Washington D.C. They failed to do their job. Despite having an hour's advance warning of a terrorist attack in progress, not a single Andrews fighter tried to protect the city. The FAA, NORAD and the military have cooperative procedures by which fighter jets automatically intercept commercial aircraft under emergency conditions. These procedures were not followed. If the FAA is required by law to notify the US government of a reported hijacking, as they did before the first hit at the World Trade Center, why then, with well over half an hour before the attack on the Pentagon, were no preventive military actions taken by Andrews Air Force Base?

    According to the New York Times, by 8:56 A.M. (if not earlier), it is clear Flight 77 has gone missing. Yet the same newspaper points out NORAD is not notified about it for another 28 minutes! [New York Times, 10/16/01]

    Why were fighters not scrambled IMMEDIATELY to find Flight 77?

    At 9:41 A.M., Flight 77 hits the Pentagon. [8:56 to 9:41 is 45 minutes -- and yet, according the official Government Version of 9/11, no U.S. Fighter Jets even attempt to intercept Flight 77!]

    Think about that.

    Here are some more points to think about:

    The scrambling of fighter aircraft at the first sign of trouble is a routine phenomenon. Between 9/11 and June, 2002, jets were scrambled after aircraft 462 times. Obviously there was great nervousness after 9/11, but in the same time period the year before, fighters were still scrambled 67 times. [Taken From Associated Press News, 8/13/02]

    "Consider that an aircraft emergency exists... when: ... There is unexpected loss of radar contact and radio communications with any... aircraft." [Taken from the FAA Regulations]

    "If... you are in doubt that a situation constitutes an emergency or potential emergency, handle it as though it were an emergency." [Taken from the FAA Regulations]

    "Pilots are supposed to hit each fix with pinpoint accuracy. If a plane deviates by 15 degrees, or two miles from that course, the flight controllers will hit the panic button. They'll call the plane, saying "American 11, you're deviating from course." It's considered a real emergency, like a police car screeching down a highway at 100 miles an hour. When golfer Payne Stewart's incapacitated Learjet missed a turn at a fix, heading north instead of west to Texas, F-16 interceptors were quickly dispatched." [Taken from MSNBC News, 9/12/01]

    "A NORAD spokesman says its fighters routinely intercept aircraft. When planes are intercepted, they typically are handled with a graduated response. The approaching fighter may rock its wingtips to attract the pilot's attention, or make a pass in front of the aircraft. Eventually, it can fire tracer rounds in the airplane's path, or, under certain circumstances, down it with a missile." [Taken from the Boston Globe Newspaper, 9/15/01]

    "In October, Gen. Eberhart told Congress that 'now it takes about one minute' from the time that the FAA senses something is amiss before it notifies NORAD. And around the same time, a NORAD spokesofficer told the Associated Press that the military can now scramble fighters 'within a matter of minutes to anywhere in the United States.'" [Taken from Slate News, 1/16/02]

    The commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Anatoli Kornukov said the day after 9/11: "Generally it is impossible to carry out an act of terror on the scenario which was used in the USA yesterday... As soon as something like that happens here, I am reported about that right away and in a minute we are all up." [Taken from Pravda News, 9/12/01]

    Supposedly, on 9/11, there are only 4 fighters on ready status in the Northeastern US, and only 14 fighters on ready status in the entire US. [Taken from BBC News, 8/29/02]

    And, in my research, I have found that there certainly is evidence of the other things mentioned in that Article I posted, and I will try to post some more soon.

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