"Independent" Scotland joke! (page 3)

Anony Mous

As far as polls it all depends on the question you ask. There are polls from obviously partisan sides that will then claim one way or the other.
There are decent polls from YouGov etc that show that not only is independence not high on anyone’s radar (only 20% of the population thinks it should be a priority) but straight up independence votes would not win support in the current political climate (43 yes to 48 no) but 69% of Scots do not even support having a referendum with 55% of the population having no confidence at all in SNP to do the right thing.
I’m sure that with the right leaders, Scottish independence could be attained, but as it stands now, the existing government would not even get re-elected to do anything.

Phizzy

YouGov a ? Not a Company I would trust to return a result that is close to truth. You know who owns the Company I presume ?

Journeyman

YouGov a ? Not a Company I would trust to return a result that is close to truth.

The Wikipedia link I posted previously summarising a variety of recent polling sources shows that a majority for Scottish independence is by no means large or consistent. The numbers swing from +/- 10%, with up to as many as 10% undecided, which could be enough to swing a vote either way on the day. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_on_Scottish_independence

So Anony Mous is right to question whether there really is such an overwhelming demand for IndyRef2 right now.

And while the same could be said for the EU referendum of 2016 (where the majority to leave was small), the difference is that that vote was the first test of the public mandate in 40 years on the matter (thanks to stalling by successive governments), whereas Scotland had a vote just 9 years ago on the question of independence. By that reckoning, we should expect the next IndyRef vote in about 2054...

BoogerMan

The SNP has set up a network of nine international offices worldwide to promote "Scottish" interests overseas and strengthen its relationships with countries and continents. These offices are located in:

https://www.gov.scot/policies/international-relations/

I didn't know that LONDON was overseas!

These "offices" are costing the Scottish taxpayer nearly £7m per year. That money could be used to pay for things/services which Scots really need, rather than promoting the SNP's dreams.

cofty

But BoogerMan think of all the cushy jobs those phoney embassies create for SNP cronies.

BoogerMan

@ cofty - The vast majority of Scots have no idea about the SNP's cushy "job-creation" scheme!

https://www.scotlandeuropa.com/scotland-house-brussels

I wonder which SNP MP thought that little Scotland needed a "Pakistan strategy?" 😂

"Scotland's new Pakistan Strategy recognises the need for specific, focused and collaborative activity with Pakistan, to help us meet our purpose of sustainable economic growth." https://www.gov.scot/publications/scotlands-international-framework-pakistan-engagement-strategy/

Who dreams up these nonsensical, brain-dead "justifications?"

LoveUniHateExams

It’s 50/50 want independence at the moment - then that's not a majority, as you falsely implied in a previous post.

The other parts of the UK should get their own votes on whether to remain in the UK - weasel words. Do we ask this referendum UK-wide and tally up the yes votes and no votes with one side winning, or do we separate off all the countries and territories arbitrarily?

Like any normal country Scotland will decide what is in its best interests in terms of currency and economic and foreign policy at the time - but what if Scotland's best interest is to stay within the UK, and have the British pound as its currency?

I agree both the assets and the liabilities of the UK state will need to be settled equitably - nice words, but what does this mean in practice?

As far as I can make out, you want Scotland to discontinue with the Barnet Formula, and have a proportionate share of Westminster's riches, plus a proportionate share of the UK debt.

Is this viable?

Scotland has a population of approx. 5 million, give or take. Some of those people are kids in schools, some are drug addicts or otherwise unable to make a net benefit to the Scottish economy.

How many people in Scotland are a net benefit to society? Maybe 3 and a half million, something like this.

How can Scotland survive - and more importantly - thrive independently from England?
Have you genuinely thought this through, or is it 'independence at all costs'?

I'm sorry, Slim, but you're not really dealing with the issues I raised. Rather, you're just batting them away, saying 'what about Ireland, what about Norway!'.

Still, it won't be my loss, it will be Scotland's ...

Anony Mous

@Phizzy: it is the only recent poll I could find that gives a decent overview of the landscape. It’s thorough with the questions not just on independence but also whether they care at all.

Not just dumb questions like would you vote for Scottish independence after a whole survey of ongoing political issues that would sway someone to think it’s all good/bad if they would leave/stay.

It’s the same as asking: do you want a million dollars; everyone would say yes; do you want to work hard and go through the failures and potentially lose everything on the way there; well, not sure if everyone really cares to have a million dollars; do you think getting a million dollars is more important than your health, family etc, again, the people really wanting that million dollars dwindles fast.

Not sure why you wouldn’t trust them, they’re generally viewed as one of the most reliable pollsters.

Journeyman

Not just dumb questions like would you vote for Scottish independence...

Actually, that's the most important question. It mirrors what was actually asked in 2014 (which the Scots voted against), and it focuses the mind. You can ask all the nuanced questions you like, but voters will need to be reminded that ultimately any referendum question boils down to a simple question: Stay in the UK, or leave it?

Again, that should be the lesson for everyone from the 2016 EU referendum(*). After all the debate, when it comes to putting an X in the box, there are no weaselly "maybe this, maybe that" multiple choice options in the end. You either vote IN or OUT (if you vote at all). It's not possible to have second choices or "sit on the fence" options.

It may be a good idea to have a second vote (or secondary box in the main referendum) to get some direction on how the first choice should be implemented (something which should probably have happened with the EU referendum too), but the basic question would have to be answered first - as The Clash said: "Should I stay or should I go?"

(*) - apart from the lesson: don't offer a referendum if you're not prepared to back up the result and you're going to throw your toys out of the pram and run away if you don't get your way, like the coward PM David Cameron did.

BoogerMan

@ sbf - "But the idea that Scotland wouldn’t have been wealthier outside the UK is an insult to our intelligence when we see what Norway has done with its oil revenue..."

You might be wrong SBF. I think it's the SNP's fiscal incompetence which insults our intelligence:

"During 2021-22 tax revenue generated in Scotland amounted to about £73.8 billion, including North Sea oil revenue. During the same period, Scotland benefited from about £97.5 billion in public spending, a difference of £23.7 billion." https://www.deliveringforscotland.gov.uk/scotland-in-the-uk/public-spending/

£23.7 billion shortfall would be painful to taxpayers in an "independent" Scotland.

"Independent" Scotland joke!

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