Who is the Saviour?

by JW Answers 37 Replies latest watchtower bible

JW Answers

Cofty, if you genuinely want to know, watch the video, and you'll receive help with the verses I provide.
My words have no power, I preach the word of God which has power (Hebrews 4:12).
Instead of asking man his views... ask God to reveal His word to you.
Seek and ye shall find.
Finkelstein

A guys this is nutter troll (JW Answers)
He's been here before , he quotes Scriptures out context then use it to support his own interpretation.
He actually thinks its god speaking in the bible, not men who intentionally wanted to create power and relevance to their specific god they particularly worshiped Yahweh
JW Answers

1 Thessalonians 2:13 KJV
For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.
jookbeard

JW Answers , isnt it a bit easier if you can briefly explain this belief you have rather than watch the video?
cofty

Your intellectual dishonesty is self-evident.
JW Answers

Jookbeard, okay.
As mentioned, in Isaiah the Bible says the following :
In the NWT it replaces the word Lord with Jehovah.
The Jehovah's Witnesses teach that God is one person, not three.
However as the Bible says that there is no Saviour beside God, this is further evident in the book of Hosea.
Hosea 13:4 KJV
Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
So as we are taught from the Scripture - It is God who is the Saviour, not men, not an organisation and not ourselves.
However as we note that Jesus is the Saviour of the world, there either has to be a contradiction in the word of God, because we have learned that ONLY God is the Saviour, or we can learn from the Bible that the Lord Jesus who is equal to His Father and a member of the Godhead IS the Saviour and is God.
If you go to the book of numbers, you will see that God who is the Saviour to Israel rescued them from Egypt, and delivered them. Yet, as they murmured against Him, God chastened them by sending fiery serpents. Note the verse...
Numbers 21:5-8 KJV
And the people spake against God, and against Moses, Wherefore have ye brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness? for there is no bread, neither is there any water; and our soul loatheth this light bread. [6] And the Lord sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. [7] Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord , and against thee; pray unto the Lord , that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. [8] And the Lord said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.
So, it was the Lord God who Israel murmured against, it was the Lord God who sent fiery serpents and it was the Lord God who chastened Israel, as God does to all His children who are out of line (as a loving father does to his children).
However as we look at the new testament, Paul reveals which person in the Godhead sent the fiery serpents...
1 Corinthians 10:8-10 KJV
Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. [9] Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. [10] Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
So Christ was the One who was murmured against (the pre-incarnate Lord Jesus) and it was the Pre-incarnate Lord Jesus who sent the fiery serpents. Thus showing that He is God.
Paul recognises throughout scriptures that the Lord Jesus is God, in many verses.
JW Answers

Thomas knew the Lord Jesus was God :

John 20:28-29 KJV
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. [29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Peter believed the Lord Jesus was Lord of all:

Acts 10:36 KJV
The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all: )

Peter preached that Jesus is God:

2 Peter 1:1 KJV
Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Paul preached that the Lord Jesus was God:

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Paul preached that The Lord Jesus is the great God:

Titus 2:13 KJV
Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Paul said that The Lord Jesus is the God and Saviour of whom appeared to us:

Titus 3:4 KJV
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

John explained that the Lord Jesus was God several times...

John 1:1 KJV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1 John 5:7 KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

1 John 5:20 KJV
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

So you see, there is scriptural evidence throughout the Bible to explain that the Lord Jesus is equal to the Father and is God.
There are THREE that are in Heaven... The Father, The Word and the Holy Spirit and these THREE are ONE.
Atlantis

Other titles and names the Watchtower apply to themselves.
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"Mighty God" "Everlasting Father"
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... Soon follows the power which will, under him as our head, constitute the whole body of Christ the "Mighty God" (el- powerful one) to rule and bless the nations-and the body with the head, shall share in the work of restoring the life lost in Adam, and therefore be members of that company which as a whole will be the Everlasting Father to the restored race. (Watch Tower Reprints, October/November, 188 1,298)
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"Gods"
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Our high calling is so great, so much above the comprehension of men ... not any longer human, but "partakers of the divine nature." ... We are divine beings-hence all such are Gods .... Thus we have a family of God, Jehovah being our father .... When Jesus said he was a son of God ... he was making himself to be also a God, or of the God family. ... Now we appear like men, and all die naturally like men, but in the resurrection we will rise in our true character as Gods. (Watch Tower Reprints, December, 188 1,301)
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"Immanuel" "complete Christ"
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Ques. Jesus has not yet been called Immanuel (God with us) yet, has he? Does not this name apply to the complete Christ-head and body-when exalted and present with the world? Ans. We think that it is similar to the title-"The Everlasting Father." ... We are members of the body of that "Everlasting Father" or life giver to the world. So also with the title Immanuel. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 1882, 377)
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"Great prophet" "Everlasting Father" "Lifegiver"
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As the body of the great Prophet, Priest and King, the church will be part of the Everlasting Father or Lifegiver to the world.-Isa. 9:6. (Tabernacle Shadows of the Better Sacrifices (1899), 102)
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"completed Christ" "Lord" "Agelasting Father"
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In brief, this completed Christ, having died and lived again, becomes Lord- Rom 14:9; or Agelasting Father of the human family restored, by the "better sacrifice,"-Heb.9:23, to the original condition of sons. (Watch Tower Reprints, January/February, 1882,3 16)
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"God manifest in the flesh"
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Very shortly now, this mystery of God, this company of divinely-begotten sons, will be FINISHED completed: "The church of the first born," of which Jesus is the head, will soon cease to be, God manifest in the flesh. The entire company shall be glorified together, and "shall shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." (Matt. 13: 43.) They shall arise in power and strength to bless all the families of the earth. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 1882,369).
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"the Christ ... in the flesh"
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So, then, Christ is manifest in your mortal body. (2 Cor 4: 11) When the world sees you it sees a member of the Christ, not in glory. But in the flesh. ... (Watch Tower Reprints, March 1883,455)
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"The Christ" "The Christ of God" "The Messiah"
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To be thus part of "The Seed," "The Christ," we must see to it that we comply with the conditions [suffer death with Him if we would be found in Him] thus making our calling and election sure.(Watch Tower Reprints, September 1880, 134)
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Our oneness with Jesus as members of the Christ-anointed body-may
be clearly illustrated by the figure of a pyramid: ... How beautifully this illustrates our position as members of "The Seed," "The Christ." (Watch Tower Reprints, September 1880, 135)
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The Christ of God is Jesus and the redeemed Church (1 Cor. 12: 12. ..). (Watch Tower Reprints, May 1885,75 1)
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This Gospel age is the time in which the Messiah is prepared. The Head of the Messiah, therefore, very properly, is first; and following him the Apostles and all down through the age the various members of the body. This age will end when the full number of the "elect" shall have been found and tested. Then the body will have been completed. When The Messiah is complete, The Christ will be complete. (Watch Tower Reprints, June 15, 19 1 1,484 1)
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"Deliverer" "Servant of the Covenant"
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"There shall come out of Zion [the spiritual church] the Deliverer [this great high priest, the Servant of the Covenant-Jesus, the Head, and the little flock, his body], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob." (Tabernacle Shadows, 33-34). (brackets in original]
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"great Deliverer Class"
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This great Deliverer Class has been in process first of development then of birth throughout this gospel age. The Head was born more than eighteen centuries ago; and now the body is being brought to the birth in the first resurrection.(Watch Tower, October 1, 1920,292)
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"The Servant of Jehovah (God)" "Servant" "The Christ"
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Seeing then that The Servant of Jehovah is The Christ, and that The Christ is composed of Jesus and the faithful members of his body, we find it proper to apply the term "Servant" to Jesus Christ alone or to Jesus Christ and the members of his body collectively as one; and sometimes it is applied only to the members of the body yet on earth .... The Christ collectively is The Servant of Jehovah God, and the body members are a part of that Servant; they are also the servants of Christ himself, who is their Head. (Watch Tower, February 15, 1927,53)
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"great Shepherd"
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And other Scriptures show us that all of the flock thus faithful, in following the Shepherd even "unto death," are counted as members of the body of the Shepherd. Thus the entire Gospel age has been the period of suffering with Christ, of dying daily, of laying down our lives for the brethren; and not until this sacrifice is complete in the close of this age will the New Covenant by thrown open in the largest sense of the word to the world of mankind in general, and the great Shepherd be complete-Head and body. (Watch Tower Reprints, February 15, 1899,2442)
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"one great Messiah" "great Messiah" "Messiah"
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Assuredly this is the thought then, that from God's standpoint there is the one great Messiah, the elect Head and the elect members of his body. These, as one loaf, constitute from God's standpoint the bread of everlasting life for the world.,.. (Watch Tower Reprints, October 15, 1906, 3880)
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Messiah's kingdom once established, Jesus and his glorified church constituting the great Messiah, shall minister the blessings to the people they have so long desired and hoped for and prayed might come. (Rutherford, Millions Now Living Will Never Die [1920], 88)
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... The Messiah-Jesus the head and the church his body. (Watch Tower, February 15,1920,54)
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"Messiah" "Mediator"
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Bear in mind that our covenant, the original one [with Abraham], had no mediator..,.A mediator is necessary, and the Messiah, Head and members, will be the Mediator in whose hands of control the entire world will be placed during the Millennium, so that even the willing and obedient will not be directly introduced to the Father until the end of that Mediatorial reign. (Watch Tower Reprints, January 1, 1909,43 10)
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"Mediator of the New Covenant" "Great Mediator" "The Christ"
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From the time of Jesus down, the Mediator of the New Covenant has been in process of selection, and the "better sacrifices," as the basis for the New Covenant have been in process of offering. During this Gospel age Jesus has not exercised his office as Mediator for the world; and the world has no relationship with God, but still lies in the wicked one. The Mediator himself has been in the process of development .... No mediating can be done until the Mediator of "many members" has qualified for the office. His qualification consists of his sacrificing, according to his covenant of sacrifice. The Christ, Head and body, are, therefore, the Mediator for the world in a prospective sense-in the same sense as Jesus, the Babe, could be spoken of as the Savior
and the King. He is only now becoming the King and has yet saved only a few of his people .... The Great Mediator between God and man-The Christ of glory-will fill his mediatorial office for a thousand years and complete it only by the end of that time, when he will deliver over to the Father, fully reconciled, all who can be brought into harmony with the divine arrangement. (Watch Tower Reprints, July 15, 1916,5928)
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"saviours"
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[Comment on Revelation 5: 101 And to open the seals thereof.-Disclose the wonderful method by which the Father will develop the saviors of the
world.-Obad. 21 (The Finished Mystery, [1917], 101)
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The saints who are to be associated with Jesus during his reign are likewise called "saviours." (Obadiah 21) (Watch Tower, December 15, 1927,38 1)
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"Prophet like unto Moses"
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The Prophet like unto Moses, the great Law-giver, the great King, the great Mediator, will be the foretold "seed of Abraham," in whom all the families of the earth shall be blessed .... And this seed of Abraham, as we have already seen, as the Apostle has most clearly set forth, consists of our Lord Jesus, as the Head, the chief, and all of his faithful elect church as members-as his body .... (Watch Tower Reprints, August 15, 1901,2859)
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It is significant that in the Watch Tower Publications Index (1930-1985) under the "CONGREGATION OF GOD listing, the reader is referred to almost two dozen other entries covering the subject, but not one of the above designations or names appears.
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See: The Four Presidents Of The Watch Tower Society/Edmond C. Gruss

Atlantis!
JW Answers

Thank you Atlantis. That will come in handy for sharing with them.
Doctor Who

Cofty I will explain the trinity for you in my own words.
The trinity is like a person with multiple personality disorder. There is one physical presence, but 3 distinct personalities that can manifest at any time. Usually only 2, a duality if you will, but since this is based on older trinitarian concepts from Mesopotamia and Egypt we have to make it 3. So when God said let US make man in our image, man was meant to be 3 distinct personalities. Oh shit....that sounds crazy.

Who is the Saviour?

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