by stuckinarut2 39 Replies latest watchtower bible
I find your comments well researched and informative, David Jay, and I appreciate hearing things expressed from another perspective.
Some people take offence at all religion now, especially after being so hurt or damaged from being in a cult (JWs) but many people also appreciate hearing these other viewpoints, such as myself.
Stay, post as you do, and ignore the chiders or any unkind remarks. There are many here who appreciate your posts and explanations.
Jesus: Demon, I command you to leave this person.
Demon(s): OK, send us over into that herd of swine.
Jesus: When pigs fly!
Demon(s): We'll see about that!
I'm thinking every story in the bible is allegorical and was always meant to be.
Take this story, well first off there were no cops in the first century (I'm kidding.)
Love your comments David Jay!
Stick around, please.
EverApostate,
Wasn't offended. I just took it literally.
You said it was a place for joking and suddenly I thought: Oh, oh, David, you did it again!
I almost never share I have autism. It was like I said, practically nobody knows. Now at 50 I've learned how to fit in and for the most part I function like most people in public.
But there are still a few times when things escape me, like cerain low-brow jokes. I am also highly logical.
I also almost never offer my opinions here. Opinions have no logical value since they are based on emotions. People leaving the Watchtower need empirical data, in other words what people call "facts." Jokes and opinions will only cloud the needs of people leaving cults.
We on this board owe it to people reading our posts to separate ourselves, our opinions and feelings from the subject matter, and to post objectively. Sure, a joke here and there is fine, but there is a section for it isn't there?
For the most part we need to answer questions in ways to help Witnesses and ex-JWs think critically so as to leave the Watchtower behind. In order to do this we need to think and answer seriously as often as possible.
Lives are at stake. If you waste your time on here joking, you are wasting a reader's time, a reader who might have limited time on this site because they are still a JW, and might get caught reading this and face disciplinary action because of it. Others are not as free as you to be here on this forum. You can't think only of yourself.
We post a joke, and they have had to scroll past jokes to find real, serious information that they need. That's not fair. There are many people that can't sign up as members and only read out of fear of getting caught, but they seriously need our help, not our jokes.
We have a duty. We are out. We need to help get our brother and sisters out too. That, in my opinion, is not a joking matter.
I admit that this blog has a lot of sensible posts too, which has been very useful and informative for me. But the topic discussed in this thread was anything but serious, for me.(Sending devils into pigs)
"...not a joking matter..." DJ
Oh crap, oops too late for me I have committed the horrible sin of joking about "serious matters" like religion all the time.
What can I say, it's my coping mechanism.
EverApostate,
My wife, who has passed, was an atheist. Her brother, who is still living, is atheist. I'm a practing Jew. I love her brother very much, and he and I are very close. We are the best of friends.
There is a very big difference between him and his atheist friends, most of whom are scholars and academics, and the atheists on this board. My atheist friends are not anti-religious. Most atheists here are very anti-religious.
And yet, this is not an anti-religious board. It is an ex-Jehovah's Witnesses board. Over the years, it has become very intolerant of religious thought and people.
I'm very supportive of atheists, even those with an anti-religious slant. Being a Jew I am often subject to religious persecution by the same religions that persecute atheists. We generally have the same enemies in common. Even if we didn't, I hate the fact that anyone would treat another human as a second-class citizen just because they don't believe in God. My experience with atheists has for the most part been positive, and they have been some of the closest family members of mine.
This forum has of late become an anti-religion forum. But it is advertised still as an ex-JW forum. And though I understand that people are hurt by the Watchtower, and know what that is like because I was a JW too, people focus their anger and hate at anything and anyone religious.
In my case, that is often me and my culture. And it hurts, it hurts a lot. It's insulting, and often anti-Semitic. But I come back again and again.
This isn't an anti-religious forum. There are forums on the Internet that are for anti-religious discussions and jokes. You can rant and rave there. But I understand the need of people to do that here, and I just go ahead and let it happen.
But the opening page of this site reads that this is a place that will...
...provide a friendly, tolerant and informative environment where you can ask questions, share information and make new friends.
That isn't really true anymore. People aren't tolerant of things religious. People are intolerant of it. It's just a joke, and often it's a target and something to insult.
You are in the outside world now. Outside the Watchtower, the God of Abraham originates from the culture of the Jews, so does the Old Testament part of the Bible. You make fun of that or say bad things about God, you are saying bad things about a culture and a people, and me. It's called "intolerance." It amounts to "anti-Semitism." This isn't the closed-off world of the Watchtower anymore. You can't say things like some of you have been saying of late without hurting me or a lot of people. You have to learn to stop and think before you type. You need to find healthier ways to deal with your anger and hurt. Some of your speech is boardering on hate speech.
The fact that some of you don't see certain subjects as anything more than a joke says a lot about not realizing how things are really like in the outside world. You want to be outside in the real world. Okay, you are. But now you have rules out here. You can't say certain things. God is not the exclusive property of the Christians. God is also tied to the Jewish culture, a persecuted minority, one that suffered during the Holocaust.
You are outside in the very real world now. I understand the hurt, the pain from the Watchtower days. It's not like I don't feel it too. But there are proper ways to act now. We aren't in the Watchtower anymore.
David_Jay..........Thank you for your posts and sharing your knowledge. I enjoy reading them and your ability to expand on Jewish history and traditions. It often puts things in a different light .
