New Research at AJWRB

by Lee Elder 103 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  OrphanCrow

  dsp: Why skew it - if the figure should be higher then it should be higher - why would you try to lower it?

  It is a matter of avoiding the charge of sensationalism by erring on the side of caution.
• 

  Lee Elder

  steve2:

  Jehovah's Witnesses have aggressively pursued relationships with the "bloodless" surgery centers (many of which are directed by and employ JW's). High risk patients will almost always be directed to these centers where they can almost be guaranteed to receive the kind of treatment they seek, whether or not it makes sense medically. The probability of involving the authorities is thus significantly muted.

  darkspilver:

  You correctly note that, "the average number of publishers during the 2016 service year was 8,132,358" and that this number includes children. There are also a large number of JW's who due to age and health are no longer "publishers". Additionally, there are millions of inactive and former JW's, many of whom remain sympathetic towards the blood policy thanks to decades of continual indoctrination and implanted blood phobias. We will always be working with estimates regardless of how hard we try to nail an exact number down. It simply cannot be done. That does not mean that we should not try.
• 

  Ruby456

  steve2 I so agree with this post of yours, my research is from the BMJ and is current and here studies show that in most/ or all countries in the developed world children are given blood even when their parents refuse it. so this would definitely make deaths from refusing blood less. western nations aren't simply going to sit by and let children die nor will physicians allow this to happen.

  European countries go further and some even order blood transfusions for people who become unconscious even if they carry a blood card and even if they refused blood before they became unconscious. If their condition deteriorates while unconscious the physician knows he has the power to quickly telephone a judge who will grant him an order to give blood (evidence on previous pages).

  A further complicating factor is that in many Western countries, babies with serious congenital conditions born to JW parents become state wards when medical professionals deem surgery is needed, including blood transfusions. It is thus rare nowadays to hear of infants/children dying because of their JW parents' blood refusals because legislation grants medical custody to the treating medical team.
  Whilst no figures are on hand, most of us older adults raised as JWs can look back on a time when JW parents could successfully refuse blood for their newborns and death was often the outcome. Rarely does this now happen in countries such as New Zealand (my homeland), Australia and (I presume) Canada.
  But I cannot be sure how widespread the child wellbeing, welfare and protection laws are in other Western countries. steve 2
• 

  Ruby456

  orphancrow that research is from 1997. pls supply research that is current to back up your points.

  Pre 1997 such people as Lee Elder and Dr Muramoto were only just beginning their work of raising awareness in the medical community. their work has had fantastic results and this needs to be emphasized and advertised. think of the number of lives they have saved.

  In less developed lands the blood transfusion service isn't as established as it is in developed lands and sometimes non existent so it would be hard to say how many died from refusing blood.

  edit: here is another factor that complicates the picture as it shows how physicians by working with JW babies have helped research - from 2005

  Transfusion-Free Cardiopulmonary Bypass in Jehovah’s Witness Patients Weighing Less Than 5 kg

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4680786/
  

  Traditionally, cardiac surgery has been associated with the risk of a high frequency of blood transfusions resulting from the characteristics of the operative procedure, especially with the use of heart–lung machines, which require anticoagulation and hemodilution and therefore cause impaired postoperative hemostasis. An even greater challenge is cardiac surgery in infants and neonates. Whereas in adults the priming volume of the CPB circuit corresponds to approximately one third of the patient’s blood volume, this relationship is unfavorably altered in neonates and infants, in the past resulting in a bypass circuit priming volume sometimes two to three times greater than the patient’s circulating blood volume (2). We report CPB procedures during cardiovascular surgery in three Jehovah’s Witness patients weighing less than 5 kg without any transfusion of blood or blood derivatives during their entire hospital stay.
• 

  Ruby456

  orphancrow

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22432994

  how do the figures for this more contemporary research compare with the gen population. I was reading in the BMJ that mortality is fairly high among severely anaemic patients even if they are treated with blood transfusions.
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Ruby: orphancrow that research is from 1997. pls supply research that is current to back up your points.

  I have no idea what you are talking about. I posted 4 studies in response to darkspliver's query. The studies I linked to were from 1989, 1993, 2002 and 2012.

  I already linked the study you are posting. I am not prepared to answer your question as to how the rates in the 2012 Beliaev study compare to the general population. It is not a simple calculation and would require some time and work to arrive at an answer.

  I am still waiting for where it is you got the information for your statement: "I think that jw lives are being saved and far fewer are dying."
• 

  Ruby456

  you have no idea about your own research - well here it is from your response to steve2

  https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=pediatric+jehovah&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=&oq=pediatric

  I am still waiting for where it is you got the information for your statement: "I think that jw lives are being saved and far fewer are dying."orphancrow

  this question I have already replied to in this thread and if after considering that evidence you want more than i will be glad to asist.
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Ruby: you have no idea about your own research - well here it is from your response to steve2
  https://scholar.google.ca/scholar?hl=en&q=pediatric+jehovah&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=&oq=pediatric

  That link has 4,660 responses/studies to it. Which one of those 4660 is the one that is from 1997?

  this question I have already replied to in this thread and if after considering that evidence you want more than i will be glad to asist.

  ?? Where did you give evidence/source for your statement??
  
  
• 

  Ruby456

  I'm not sifting through work that is pre 2005 - a cursory look through the titles supports my thesis that the medical community have implemented strategies for saving JW lives, and these need to be considered before making announcements as in the OP and by JWfacts. While i acknowledge that i cannot stop such announcements being made consider how the medical community receives such announcements as they are an indictment of medicine's ability to rise to such challenges.

  edit: great article here re pre 2003 (1991-203) and post 2003 ( 2003-2012)

  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23013647

  Background
  Refusal of heterogenic blood products can be for religious reasons as in Jehovah's Witnesses or otherwise or as requested by an increasing number of patients. Furthermore blood reserves are under continuous demand with increasing costs. Therefore, transfusion avoidance strategies are desirable. We describe a historic comparison and current results of blood saving protocols in Jehovah's Witnesses patients

  Methods

  Data on 250 Jehovah's Witness patients operated upon between 1991 and 2003 (group A) were reviewed and compared with a second population of 250 patients treated from 2003 to 2012 (group B).
• 

  OrphanCrow

  Ruby: a cursory look through the titles supports my thesis...

  And therein lies your problem, Ruby. Combined with your previously self-admitted lack of math skills, and your cursory looks, your criticism of the OP and JWfacts is unfounded.

  Yes, the medical community has come up with ways that benefit the JW population. But in the context of this discussion, it is meaningless because those benefits also apply to the general population. What this thread is about is the additional risk that JWs face over the general population that leads to needless deaths.