Who Is the Archangel Michael? "evidently" Jesus

by NikL 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TD
    TD

    From the article:

    Jesus has “an archangel’s voice” because he is the archangel, Michael.

    This is a not a conclusion demanded by Greek grammar. The phrase, "...with the voice of the archangel" sounds like possession in English, but in Greek, the sense is accompaniment or attendant circumstance.

    In other words, if you skied down a mountain "with the sound of a trumpet," it doesn't necessarily mean you were personally blowing the trumpet; it means the sound of a trumpet accompanied your descent.

    Here are a handful of hundreds of references that could be given:

    *

    *

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    *


  • blondie
    blondie

    Seventeen years ago, one of my bible students asked me to prove this using the bible. As I examined the information in the WT publications back then, I realized embarrassed, that there was no definite statement by the WTS and it was "evidently" back then. That was one of the milestones in my examining WT teachings more closely and realizing the buzzwords and phrases the WTS used to make it appear definite.

    Michael, referred to by some religions as “Saint Michael,” is evidently a name given to Jesus before and after his life on earth.
    Consider why it is reasonable to conclude

    it is more reasonable to conclude

    -------------Other identifiations of Jesus by the WTS using similar buzz words phrases

    (WT February 15, 2008, pages 12-16)

    7. How did the Jews act as far as the Law was concemed?

    7 During his prehuman existence as "the Word," Jesus may have been God's Spokesman who guided the Israelites through the wilderness. (John 1:1; Ex. 23:20-23) However, they had "received the Law as transmitted by angels but [had] not kept it." (Acts 7:53; Heb. 2:2, 3) In fact, the first century Jewish religious leaders failed to discern the intent of the Law. For example, consider the Sabbath law. (Read Mark 3:4-6.) The scribes and Pharisees "disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness." (Matt. 23:23) Nevertheless, Jesus did not give up and cease to declare the truth.

    "Jesus MAY HAVE been God's Spokesman who guided the Israelites through the wilderness"

    This is similar to the way the WTS concludes that Jesus is Michael the archangel. They teach that this angel was Michael. What is the scriptural proof?

    *** it-2 p. 1203 Word, The ***

    Since the angel that guided the Israelites through the wilderness had ‘Jehovah’s name within him,’ he may have been God’s Son, the Word.—Ex 23:20-23

    Yet if Jesus was an angel prior to his birth on earth, his name would not have been Jesus. And if he was Michael, how would God's name be in him any more than in Gabriel?

    Notice some "likely" ways the WTS "no doubt" makes a scriptural connection where there is none.

    *** w95 8/1 p. 13 par. 21 Jehovah—A God Who Teaches ***

    Jehovah also uses angelic representatives to teach, including his Firstborn, “the Word.” (John 1:1-3) Although Jehovah could have spoken directly to his perfect human son, Adam, in the garden of Eden, likely he used the prehuman Jesus to speak for Him. (Genesis 2:16, 17) This one was probably “the angel of the true God who was going ahead of the camp of Israel” and regarding whom Jehovah commanded: “Obey his voice.” (Exodus 14:19; 23:20, 21) No doubt the prehuman Jesus was also the “prince of the army of Jehovah” who appeared to Joshua to strengthen him. (Joshua 5:14, 15).

    "religious leaders failed to discern the intent of the Law" "disregarded the weightier matters of the Law" like how the Bible forbids beards on male Christians and there has to be 2 eyewitnesses of a pedophile molesting a child; like eating grain on the Sabbath, healing on the sabbath, and not ritually washing your hands.

  • blondie
    blondie

    https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/84319/comments-you-will-hear-1-30-05-wt-study-abbreviated

    There is the article that started it in 2002:

    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/102002085#h=1:0-14:216

    Aside from Michael, no archangel is mentioned in the Bible, nor do the Scriptures use the term “archangel” in the plural. The Bible describes Michael as the archangel, implying that he alone bears that designation. Hence, it is reasonable to conclude that Jehovah God has delegated to one, and only one, of his heavenly creatures full authority over all other angels.

    (but here is the kicker phrase that I knew would not satisfy any non-jw so if the WTS could not avoid this fact, how could I convince a non-jw, or continue to convince myself)

    While there is no statement in the Bible that categorically identifies Michael the archangel as Jesus

    ............Yet, the Scriptures point to the resurrected Jesus Christ as the chief of all angels—Michael the archangel.

  • snowbird
    snowbird

    I misspoke earlier.

    Michael is listed as the champion of ISRAEL, not the Creator, who doesn't need a champion.

    Sylvia

  • NikL
    NikL

    Enjoyed everyone's comments.

    I really appreciate how so many of you know your stuff!

    More and more I am coming to the conclusion that God wears many hats.

    God the father is god in his spirit hat...no man can see him 'cuz he is a spirit.

    The son or Jesus is God manifest in physical form so that men can see him.

    And the holy spirit is God acting in people. When he guides you and when he does something in our physical world.

    Is this what Trinitarians teach?

    Anyway, that's where my head seems to be right now. I see these articles downgrading Jesus and it makes me think they are acting in a very anti-Christ manner.

  • punkofnice
    punkofnice
    NikL - these articles downgrading Jesus and it makes me think they are acting in a very anti-Christ manner.

    Consider the format of the memorial. Very Anti-Christ.

  • kpop
    kpop

    ......and evidently Jerusalem was destroyed in 607BCE because well, it's evident when you read the information in the literature the WT provides you. (Please DO NOT do any research outside of our WT approved literature. Satan is a roaring lion seeking to devour you up with facts and we don't want that!)

  • Steel
    Steel

    Once doing the research I have found it odd that the WTS could hang on to a dogma with so little bible evidence yet can completely deny the plurality of god or deity of Christ which is literally found in every book of the old and new testaments.

    The entire religion seems to be built on a scrap here and there without a basic understanding of Christology or how the new testament fulfills the old testament.

  • pixel
    pixel

    "Evidently". The end. Why ask a question then?

    But let's try:

    Daniel 10:13:

    But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, ONE of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

    As in: There-is-more-than-one-chief-prince, hence, there are more angels with the same rank as Michael.

    Stupid-dumb WT.



  • AverageJoe1
    AverageJoe1

    Pixel, that's amaaaaaazing! Classic reasoning just using the Bible (as it should be). Thanks.

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