Talked to a JW at a literature stand today

by nevermind 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs


    Can you guys shed some light of this type of behavior? Is it common for JWs to outright lie like this? Please help me understand this odd behavior!

    There`s nothing odd about it..

    When confronted, Jehovah`s Witnesses will Lie.

    (Theocratic Warfare Strategy/You don`t deserve the Truth)

    JW`s are Authorized to lie, by the WBT$..

  • venus

    Tare lies or near-lies. I have seen some people who left the organization in 1975 because end did not come. From where did they get the notion that end would come in 1975?

  • ToesUp

    You will get more accomplished if you go to the nearest wall and bang your head over and over again, then trying to reason with JW's. I don't even try to reason with some family members anymore, it's just not worth the frustration. I have better things to do, like enjoying a beautiful sunset walk with my spouse.

  • Xanthippe

    Hi and welcome nevermind. I think you did really well talking to this JW especially as a shy person. I have seen them in my town but I haven't walked up to them yet.

    Venus started a thread about higher education and there's a link in it provided by Wifibandit showing a letter to bodies of elders. It included a section on higher education which makes it clear that if an elder pursues higher education or let's his children do so he can be removed from being an elder at the next circuit visit.

    You have to realise that what they say in print and what everyone understands the GB to mean are two different things. Reading between the lines it's quite clear that although they state an elder might be able to go to college and still get to meetings, FS and be in good standing the suggestion is if he misses odd meetings, FS, or one person in the congregation says something negative about him, the elders can 'get' him. Pioneers, well they can be removed by the elders without consulting the CO if they go to college. I suppose they just have to miss a few meetings, they are in a different city after all, then the elders can 'get' them and take away their privileges.

    You see this letter and those like it are not a liberal view of education but instructions in how to take privileges off people and hopefully get them to leave because they're getting too clever.

    Perhaps the woman you met didn't have a husband in the religion or he may not have been an elder so they couldn't take his 'priviledge' away if his kids went to college. But I bet he never gets to be an elder.

    As for 1914 it was heralded as the start of God's kingdom and paradise would come within one generation, 70 to 80 years. We preached that from door to door every day. Revisionist history now tells the congregations that didn't happen, I can assure you it did. But I agree with JWfacts it might not be this lady who's lying she may just be believing the lies the WTS put out. Recent converts don't have a clue what the organisation used to believe, they are not allowed to read old light.

  • scratchme1010

    This must be one liberal JW they chose to sit at that literature stand! But of course, I knew she was outright lying about everything.

    And her lying makes he a conservative? What does liberal have to do with anything?

  • nonjwspouse

    Hi Nevermind,

    This sounds like my born in, not baptized, husband. He left as a teen in '77 then became re-intereseted and hoping to get baptized, about 5 years ago. He read, attended meetings and began a study for about a year or so. He would answer those same questions the same way. It is the standard, taught way. It used to infuriate me before I recognized this was complete thought control he experiences, and I was pushing him deeper in when I would get upset and try to show him reality.

    He stopped the meetings, then stopped the studies. He is not baptized and I keep hoping he won't. Both for the sake of his very low self-esteem, and the risk of shunning with his family because he firmly also believes he can live a "double life" not follow some of the rules he doesn't want to follow without shunning type consequences.( He grew up an elders son that likely got away with plenty of "inappropriate" things.)

    One example: He attends his daughters special events, in the Catholic Church, at a mass. She is in Catholic grade school. See the potential problems here?

  • OnTheWayOut

    nevermind, I don't think the woman was lying. She is just using her filter as Blondie first mentioned.

    She believes the excuses and allowed them to be embedded in her mind.
    My mother is very similar. But questioning still helps. My mother has enough conflicting information and excuses in her head that she started to buckle sometime after "overlapping generation" came out. I am not saying she will ever let go of her JW beliefs, but I think deep down inside, she knows she's not going to see Armageddon in her time.

    You keep asking questions if you like. But don't expect rational responses.

  • Vidiot

    @ nevermind...

    Its the JW equivalent of this:

  • Vidiot

    Personally, I think that at the rate they keep getting confronted by polite, articulate, and well-informed "apostates", the trolley-walkers will come to dread that kind of duty before too long. :smirk:

  • nevermind

    Hey guys,

    Thank you all for your insights, which really helped me better understand that the behavior of this JW is no surprise at all!

    Gathering from all your inputs, now I see that any combination of these factors contribute to a JW's behavior when questioned about his or her beliefs:

    * Theocratic warfare - such a strange concept will of course generate no less than that "strange" behavior

    * Filter on - reforming beliefs to best suit what's wanted

    * Ignorance of WTS history

    * Believing in the lies of the WTS

    * Cognitive dissonance

    Chook - that's a great idea! I will ask hypothetical story next time I run into a JW about emotionally cruel practice of shunning.

    ToesUp - I do feel like banging my head on the wall each time I deal with a JW who's still closed minded.

    By the way, I never formally introduced myself to this board! I was exposed to the JW religion through a JW I met almost 10 years ago. Thankfully, because of the internet age, right from the get go, I knew the WTS is a false religion. Since then on, I've been trying to help this JW friend of mine realize and accept the TTATT. My latest attempt at trying to get him to question his faith on the WTS ended up him cutting off communication with me. By the way, he is blissfully ignorantly working at the Warwick Bethel now. Since he went cold turkey on me, I've been trying to understand why he behaved in such a way, and lo and behold, I found this forum! You guys have really helped me understand why JWs behave the way they due because of the mind control they are under. As you can see, my only extensive experience with a JW is with this particular JW friend. So, yesterday, when I met another JW at this literature stand, I was again shocked.

    Thanks, you guys, you are very amazing, for helping me realize that this no surprise!

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