Sorry I didn't get back to comment on some of the responses to this thread before this. I was not feeling well yesterday, so after posting it, I left the computer for the day...
Did he have any suggestion as to how one could relate the Roman armies to a handful of rabid 20th century cave dwellers that flew some planes into some buildings?
No, although he tried to make it sound as if 9/11 was somehow essentially on a different level from anything that has occurred in history before this. I said that I didn't think it was any more biblically significant than Pearl Harbor or the JFK assassination, for example. I pointed out that there have been wars all throughout history, and that Jesus said we would see wars and rumors of wars, but that the end would not be yet. His only response was, "but now it is serious...isn't it?" My answer? Not necessarily any more serious than, say, WWII.
- The Millenial Reign runs after the end of the 7th creative day, or
- The Millenial Reign is less than 1000 years, or
- Adam was created at the end of, but in the 5th creative day, or
- A creative day isn't exactly 7000 years, or
I'm not sure I get what you're saying here. If the creative days are 7000 years in length, and Adam was created in 4026 BC, and Eve an unspecified time after Adam (say 30 years as we are discussing), then it would merely mean that Adam was created 30 years before the end of the sixth "day". The sixth "day" would thus have ended in 3996 BC, and 6000 years from that (allowing for no zero year) would be 2005 AD. So, then, the seventh creative "day" would actually end in 3005 AD, with the millennium theoretically running from 2005-3005 AD. The theology, of course, is completely bogus, but I think the math works ok.
But I don't believe their theology, not even the "Armageddon is coming" part.
Armageddon may be coming, but the Armageddon predicted by the JW's is surely not. If you read the book of Revelation carefully, you get the picture of kings of the earth massing in the middle east to fight Christ at the time of His visible return. He conquers them. End of battle. It is a localized battle, and does not involve the wholesale destruction of everyone on earth except a select few. The JW idea of God zapping people from Heaven with lightning bolts and cosmic rays, and wiping out the whole planet's population, except for the members of one small and very corrupt organization, is as absurd as it is unscriptural.
A jw friend of mine has had the 2005 theory for years and years now.
Really? I never heard it before. Was it based on the same sort of ridiculous chronology that I outlined in the beginning of this thread? If so, maybe the idea is more widespread than I had anticipated.
Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near.
There you go. Their own work is advanced as the proof that they have the truth and that the end is near. More and more, it seems to me that that is the bottom line for JW's. "Who else is doing a great worldwide preaching work like we are?" The answer, of course, is that the churches have been proclaiming the Bible's gospel - that of forgiveness of sins and eternal life through Christ - for centuries. The JW work is a drop in the bucket by comparison. The only reason the JW's see so much significance in it is because their leaders constantly trumpet it as proof that they have the truth.
So come 2006, ya think this guy will admit he was wrong?
Come 2006, he'll probably set up a new screen name for Yahoo Messenger. refiners:
Some of these dates are close to dates offered up in New Age belief , a date such as 2012, which a lot of new agey expectation revolves around
Wasn't it the Aztec calendar that ends then? Or was it something Nostradamus said? I forget, but I know I've read about some New Agey type significance to that date. outoftheorg:
I just got a new calander and it stops on the 31st day of december!!!!
MY god that must mean that armageddon will come on Jan 1st 2004!!!
LOL!! Wow, you mean it wasn't only in my area that we used to eagerly pore over every new year's JW calendar to see if it ended early? elsewhere:
Quotes has done a work-up on the same topic:
OK, so I guess this guy isn't a lone crank like I thought he was, after all. He did seem fairly reasonable (except for his initial disingenuousness in trying to pretend that he was not a JW) and argued the straight JW line in other areas. But, apparently the WTS is dropping hints and letting the rank and file run with it where they may. That way, after nothing happens, they will be able to blame it on "speculation" by "some of the brothers" who were "too eager." Swan:
What an idiot. Why didn't he just tack on the 20 years that occurred between 607 BCE and the real date of the fall of Jerusalem in 587/586 BCE?
Actually, he was quite insistent about 607 being the correct date for Jerusalem's fall to Nebuchadnezzar. I couldn't recall all the arguments on that one, so I recommended that he read The Gentile Times Reconsidered
, and left it at that. JH:
So since the end will be in 2005, everybody stop going to school, don't look for a better job, don't get married, don't have kids, don't even think of buying a house....
" Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world’s end." (Kingdom Ministry
, May 1974) onacruse:
Furher proof: 2005 is 2520 years after the temple was rebuilt (515 BC):
Sorry, you forgot to adjust for the lack of a zero year. 2520 years from 515 BC is 2006.
Isn't chronology fun? blackout:
When will it end???
What I mean is When will they give up????
Maybe never. Of course, hundreds of thousands have already given up, as witnessed by the large numbers leaving the organization. Perhaps when the "waters of the Euphrates" have dried up enough for them to worry about it - meaning, when their numbers start to plummet like a rock - they'll think about revising some of their Neanderthal teachings (actually, that's an insult to Neanderthals