New Date for Armageddon?

by NeonMadman 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • NeonMadman

    I had an interesting chat with a JW on Yahoo Messenger yesterday. Of course, he was using "theocratic war strategy," at least at first, and pretended not to be a JW, but someone who was asking a lot of questions about them. He opened the conversation by asking if I wanted to discuss 'the meaning of life'. I asked whether he wanted to talk about the Monty Python movie, but he assured me that he was talking about the purpose of life. (Too bad, the mood I was in yesterday, Monty Python would have been a better topic.)

    Anyway, it didn't take me long to smoke him out as a JW (though he never admitted it), and we had a lot of the usual conversations, about the organization, false prophecies, the UN, pedophiles, Chitty and Greenlees, a bit of biblical banter about the deity of Christ and immortality of the soul. But during the conversation, he also expounded a theory that I thought was equally interesting and ridiculous, asserting (only as a possibility, he repeatedly assured me - though he did say that he found the argument "reasonable") that 2005 might be a good date for Armageddon.

    Here's the essence of it: we don't know how long Adam lived prior to the creation of Eve (I assume that most of you are familiar with the Watchtower's position that Armageddon is only being delayed after 1975 by the interval of time between the creation of Adam and that of Eve). But since there is a parallel between Adam and Jesus, and since Jesus started to prepare his "wife" (i.e., the 144,000, starting with the apostles) at the age of 30, there is a possibility that Adam also received his wife at the age of 30. Since 1975 marked 6000 years from the creation of Adam, 2005 would mark 6000 years from the creation of Eve, and thus from the end of the sixth creative "day".

    Additionally, he said, the events of 9/11/01 could be compared to the events of 66 CE when Roman armies, which later withdrew, surrounded Jerusalem. A parallel in time from 66 CE to the actual destruction of Jerusalem would be 3 1/2 years, which, extended from 9/11/01, would again bring us into 2005.

    Here's the capper: "This generation" of Matthew 24:34 was 71 years in length (from the birth of Jesus in 2 BC to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 CE - no year zero, remember). Since a much greater work would be required in this later time, it is reasonable that a longer period would be required for the final work - say, 20 years more. That would give us 91 years, which, added to 1914, would again bring us again to 2005. Yes, I did ask why it should be 20 extra years, and not 30 or 50 or 100 years. His response was that by then, no one would be left from the 1914 generation (apparently he hasn't read the 1995 Watchtower).

    So there you have it! The latest JW date for Armageddon! With no fewer than three lines of "evidence" (*cough*) leading to the same date! I don't know how widespread among the JW's this thinking is, but I can see how they would grasp at this sort of thing, given their desperation for any sort of vindication of their faith. This fellow claimed to be a very scientific and analytical person - I told him that he should take another look at the scientific method, since if he found the above argument "reasonable", his rational thinking skills needed some extensive work.

    Anyway, I thought you guys might enjoy hearing about this.

  • Erich

    Armageddon will come. Thats no question. History of men approximate to cataclyptical accidents. See wars, see hunger, see crime, see unemployment, see economy crisis etc.

    But please stop this damned numberology.


  • Buster

    Man I wish we had more JWs posting here. That was some low-hanging fruit you got to pick there.

    Did he have any suggestion as to how one could relate the Roman armies to a handful of rabid 20th century cave dwellers that flew some planes into some buildings?

    Many may find this tedious (old-hat even), but I have always had a difficulty with the lag time between Adam's creation and that of Eve. See, if 1975 marks 6000 years of man's presense, and Eve's creation marks the end of the creative day, and we need 1000 years for the millenial reign, then either:

    1. The Millenial Reign runs after the end of the 7th creative day, or
    2. The Millenial Reign is less than 1000 years, or
    3. Adam was created at the end of, but in the 5th creative day, or
    4. A creative day isn't exactly 7000 years, or
    5. ?

    The numbers are pretty straight-forward. Don't we all remember being told what a great 'Timekeeper' Jehovah was? I wish I had had the chance to put that ? to a JW apologist. Neon, I'm sure your JW defender feels he has developed a keen sense of logic by attending all those meetings, you know, instead of college and all that satanic book-learnin'. I remember feeling how superior my mode of logic was in those days.

  • Gopher

    LOL @ the 2005 prediction. When will these people realize it is only a cause for embarrasment and losing to keep predicting dates? When has the Watchtower ever given specific instruction to its members to NOT predict a date? Having its members predicting possible dates is right in line with their controlling theology that their members must act as if "they are keeping close in mind the presence of the Lord".

    Regarding Erich's "Armageddon is coming" comment. Those three words are the WHOLE UNDERLYING BASIS of the theology of Jehovah's Witnesses, and that has been the main crux of their message for over a century.

    But I don't believe their theology, not even the "Armageddon is coming" part. You mean to tell me that God will cause or allow the majority of humanity who for the most part are trying their best to get along and live a decent life to get wiped out because they didn't fully embrace a poorly-explained theology or cause? How can you equate that with a caring, loving God?

    "Armageddon is coming" -- not necessarily. Many religions have "end of the world" scenarios or solutions. But it's not 100% for sure that the Creator inspired any of those prophecies/scenarios, or that their interpretation is true.

    I find the "Armageddon is coming" theology to be fearmongering.

  • rocketman

    A jw friend of mine has had the 2005 theory for years and years now. We joke about it frequently. So, it's really nothing new in that sense. In any case, the guesswork s just that, at best. Very speculative. Interestingly, Jesus said "at a time that you do not think to be it, the Son of Man is coming" and of course he also mentioned that no one knows the day or hour. And yet, people, jws especially, continue to speculate.

  • RunningMan

    Actually, this makes perfect sense, at least in JW-land.

    Russell arrived at his date of 1874 for the beginning of Christ's presence by adding 30 years onto William Miller's failed 1844 date. The 30 years was called the "tarrying time", which corresponded to Jesus life on earth.

    So, whether this JW knows it or not, his logic has a theocratic pedigree, in a goof-ball sort of way.

  • StinkyPantz

    *** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? ***

    10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark 9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke 1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24) John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.'

    11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment upon the nation that rejected his Son. -Daniel 9:24-27; John 19:15.

    12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done. What is that?


    Be Faithful Like Elijah

    21 With zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now , God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities!

    22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful like Elijah.

    23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism. Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near.

  • undercover

    So come 2006, ya think this guy will admit he was wrong?

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    Hmmm. Neon.

    Well if 2005 = 29AD. Then expectations can be extended for 2008 (33AD). 2011 (36AD) and of course 2045. (70 CE). Then you can mess around with the year "zero" argument and the Jewish new year bit . Doing that you can "stretch and whittle" the 2005 date to 2004 - 2006. Hell, you can generate continuous expectation between the years 2004 and 2012 doing that.

    Some of these dates are close to dates offered up in New Age belief , a date such as 2012, which a lot of new agey expectation revolves around

  • outoftheorg

    I just got a new calander and it stops on the 31st day of december!!!!

    MY god that must mean that armageddon will come on Jan 1st 2004!!!

    Got to get reinstated quick.


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