by NoMoreHustle 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
i have been thinking about this phrase lately "New Heavens & New Earth"
the new earth piece i guess i can see that one...... (still not really sure about that one)
But why the need for "new heavens"? isn't it supposed to be perfect up there? isn't satan & his demons already kicked out? isn't Jehovah up there? isn't jesus up there? so what is the reason for "supposedly" new heavens?
makes no sense to me at all (it's all a bunch of hogwash)
God's wife saw the heavens that the neighbours had and decided they were getting new ones too.
Of course god had to pretend it was his idea.
Yeah, it is a bit of a puzzler. Maybe satan and the demonzes trashed the place real bad ...
The folly of human imagination.
The new heaven and the earth as described by the bible writers was a expressive hope that their god would one day make the living experience a better one for themselves as well clean up the troubles Satan and his adjoined legions created in heaven..
I guess they thought their troubles were a causative result from their own actions and behavior and that because of their of behavior the gods were punishing them. That punishment would eventfully be lifted and a new earthly paradise would return to them.
Some people even today think that this is all true and humanity will return to a earthly paradise with no pain, suffering or death.
I think they are just fooling themselves embracing ancient mythological beliefs.
Just playing Devils advocate here, but does it maybe? have to do with once the 144,000 get up there in heaven? Once they are all up there, or, are almost up there, could that have to do with it, THEN being a new heaven?
Maybe thats the WTS's "take" on it? Perhaps someone, who is more informed about it, can let us know. This is definetely an interesting point, and other than the 144,000 crap, what WOULD be the reason for a new heavens?
Inquiring minds would like to know.
I think the JW response is that the new heavens refers to the actual atmosphere of the earth. It would be new if the pre-flood atmosphere were to return.
In Biblical cosmogony, the "heavens" is a solid dome upon which the luminaries (sun, moon, stars) have been attached. The ancients, including the Jews, did not believe in the vacuum of space. Instead they imagined that the earth stood in the midst of a cosmic ocean of waters. The "dome" or "heavens" kept these cosmic waters from drenching the earth (except for the Noachin deluge upon which the "floodgates of the heavens" were opened).
Isaiah and Revelation use the term "new heavens and new earth" to describe what Jews and the first Jewish Christians called olam HaBa, "the world to come." Being a new or recreated "world," the physical features of the cosmogonic model would be required to be replaced. The old "dome" would be replaced with a new one, and the old earth (which in this model was a round flat surface plate held up by pillars that somehow stuck into the cosmic waters and supported the dome and plate) would be replaced with a new one.
The idea that the "firmament" of Genesis 1.6 was an atmospheric expanse was not shared by the Jews. Even the Christians believed that the earth was still a flat plate protected by this dome, as Peter writes about how "earth was formed out [or in the midst] of water and by means [or in the middle of] water." (2 Peter 3.5) My people, the Jews, thought the sky was a material fixture like most of their neighbors did in ancient times.
Not considered literal by WTS.
new heavens = new heavenly government, Messianic kingdom Jesus enthroned in 1914
new earth = new earthly theocratic government under Jesus/144,000 and "ancient worthies" on earth like Abraham, David, etc.
Spot on, Blondie.....
One gets more informed answers here about JW teachings than would get from most dubs. I can imagine the blank looks one would get if you asked the same question of your local "trollie dolly!"
"A new heavens and a new earth" probably sounded very poetic to the bible writer in his time, so he wrote it down and it's still there!
just saying!
eyeuse2badub
We've resurrected an old thread, but it's relevant. I've been thinking about this a lot lately, too. There are several references to "new heavens and new earth" and the "re-creation" and "I am making all things new".
Isaiah 65:17 has the first reference to "new heavens and new earth." Here, God says: "Look! I am creating..." The Hebrew word for "creating" is the same work used in Genesis regarding when God created the earth. This seems to me to be a physical creation.
The idea I've been toying with is: what if this really was a NEW heavens, that is a completely new universe, or a new extension of ours? And what if this really was a NEW earth? Why would Revelation 21:1,2 have anything to do with the CURRENT earth if God was making a new one? A fascinating thought to me.
If you've seen the moving "Knowing" with Nicolas Cage, that's something that was explored a little. You realize it at the end of the movie. Not the best movie there is, but definitely an interesting twist on the end of days and this new earth concept.
