Have you ever known a holocaust denier? How did you feel about them?

by Esse quam videri 47 Replies latest jw experiences

  • OrphanCrow

    Thanks jwleaks - very interesting. Especially the bit about The Finished Mystery. I hadn't considered that the WT literature may have had an influence on Hitler's writings. After I read Mein Kampf, I had the thought that Rutherford had read Hitler's book and used Hitler's template of structural power to model the WTS organizational changes that were implemented in the late 20s and early 30s.

    ...the jehovah's witnesses, or bible students as they were then known, went greatly ignored by the Nazi party during the lead up to and commencement of WW2. They were not singled out for persecution or attack. They were tolerated if not ignored.

    That could have something to do with the lawyers that the German WTS employed - two(?) of their lawyers were Nazi party members

    Ilsa told me that both Rudolph Hess and Adolph Hitler eventually decided that the Watchtower, aka bible students, and Rutherford were trying to cause divisions on behalf of the US government.

    That is understandable, considering that Rutherford employed the help of the US government to get his precious printing presses released under the terms of the Versailles Treaty after the first time the presses were seized

    In my opinion, Rutherford and the jehovah's witnesses around the world share the blame in stirring up trouble when none existed.

    I agree

  • Esse quam videri
    Esse quam videri

    Thank you David_Jay for your comments.

    I find it interesting how a simple question that just pops into mind can lead to posts expanding on the subject to such a degree. The life stories of so many on this forum are absorbing and fascinating. Thanks to all.

  • jwleaks

    Further on my discussions with Ilsa Hess. One time I spoke to her about the decision that Rudolph Hess made when he passed the Nuremberg laws in 1935 which effectively removed the citizenship and rights of the Jews in Germany and paved the way for the holocaust.

    Ilsa told me that one day Hess came home excited with a paper that was being given out everywhere by the Bible Students. Hess explained that the paper was critical of the Jews are provided serious claims the race was corrupt. Hess was also greatly disturbed by the paper.

    From the time of the events I have been able to identify this paper as the 1933 Declaration of Facts prepared by Rutherford. Rutherford should have kept his mouth shut. The Nazi party had already seized and then returned Watch Tower's buildings but this was an action consistant in the Magdeburg area with other buildings as well. Hitler wanted to build his headquarters in the town.

    Ilsa agreed that the eager support of the Nazi party by the Bible Students, their use of the Swastika flag on Watch Tower buildings, and the Declaration of Facts, could have influenced Hess towards the new laws he put in place about 18 months later which targetted the Jews. These laws led to the holocaust. Little wonder Watchtower leaders have spent do much time playing the persecution card and rewriting their own history to make themselves the victims and not the one's who encouraged and promoted the hatred of the Jews.

    Rutherford tried to protect his power by attacking the Jews, the US government, Britain, the League of Nations and then, in his stupidity he attacked Adolph Hitler personally. The mosquito buzzed too close to the ear and went for blood. All the while Rutherford enjoyed his distance from Germany in luxury of his Beth-Sarim mansion while awaiting the resurrection of the holy ones who he 'claimed' he built the mansion for. This left the Bible Students as a target.

    There is a good article on this time period written by James Penton.


  • The Rebel
    The Rebel

    For clarification in my earlier post I mentioned the holocaust survivors I had met. I did this because we are approaching a time when the generation of holocaust survivors, will have passed away. Therefore our children will never have the privilege to meet a holocaust survivor, sadly they may meet a holocaust denier, so the truth about the Nazi death camps should always be taught.

  • Vidiot
    Landy - "...A man hears what we wants to hear and disregards the rest..."



    I remember seeing an interview with the president of Iran. Forget his name, but it was the guy who looked like a bad used car salesman, but he was also Harvard U educated.

    He was a holocaust denier and had an interesting comment I thought. I forget the exact quote, but it went something like this

    " I don't believe there was a holocaust, but if there were, why not take Germany for Israel instead of Palestine?"

    I had to chuckle when I heard that

    Germany as Israel?LOL

  • LoveUniHateExams

    I'd like to calmly explain to them why their denial is so insidious by punching them in the face and then denying it had happened -


  • TD

    ALPD - Warum gehst du nicht weg und nimmst deine Dummheit mit dir?

  • David_Jay


    There's no such thing as a "reformed" Jew.

    There's Reform Judaism (no "ed" at the end--which is how actual Jews often spot pretenders). Members of Reform Judaism often refer to themselves as URJ (which stands for "Union for Reform Judaism") or they say they "practice" Reform (present tense) Judaism.

    URJ members get very annoyed when people call them "reformed" Jews and are big sticklers about the proper expression. It is in the present tense always and never past tense because it is speaking about practicing a form of Judaism that is currently and always in the present state of reform. The reform state never ends or stops, so it is incorrect to speak of it as if it was in the past.

    So to tell people you are a "reformed" Jew means nothing. Jews can't say we deny the Shoah (which is another clue about what you are, as we Jews find the word Holocaust--a reference to heathen sacrifice--as inappropriate, so we have our own word for it). All Jews have lost family members in the Shoah, so only non-Jewish people could imagine it as false. Jews use the term "Holocaust" rarely, employing the Hebrew term instead.

    And you can't be a Gentile convert as you can't convert to Judaism if you deny the Shoah. So a Jew you are not.

    The Internet is full of trolls and flamer wannabes. Denying the Shoah is one of their favorite pastimes as they love nothing more than to get someone to argue with them and set threads aflame.

  • blondie

    OUTLAW, you prove the adage "a picture is worth a thousand words"

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