God//Jesus and Quantum Uncertainty

by SYN 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • SYN
    SYN

    Another day, another serious post. Breaking form from my recent spate of humour, I've been doing a lot of thinking. Theological thinking, to be specific. Although this sort of thinking is normally done by people in brown frocks, my brain seems to be in Theological Thought Mode 2.13 today. It's been like that ever since I got the Theological Thought Upgrade, Service Pack 2.

    To get back to my topic, how many people here know about Schrodinger's Cat Box?

    It's very simple, really:

    "Schrodinger's cat is a famous illustration of the principle in quantum theory of superposition, proposed by Erwin Schrodinger in 1935. Schrodinger's cat serves to demonstrate the apparent conflict between what quantum theory tells us is true about the nature and behavior of matter on the microscopic level and what we observe to be true about the nature and behavior of matter on the macroscopic level.

    First, we have a living cat and place it in a thick lead box. At this stage, there is no question that the cat is alive. We then throw in a vial of cyanide and seal the box. We do not know if the cat is alive or if it has broken the cyanide capsule and died. Since we do not know, the cat is both dead and alive, according to quantum law, in a superposition of states. It is only when we break open the box and learn the condition of the cat that the superposition is lost, and the cat becomes one or the other (dead or alive). We know that superposition actually occurs at the subatomic level, because there are observable effects of interference, in which a single particle is demonstrated to be in multiple locations simultaneously. What that fact implies about the nature of reality on the observable level (cats, for example, as opposed to electrons) is one of the stickiest areas of quantum physics. Schrodinger himself said, later in life, that he wished he had never met that cat. "

    Now, let's extend the thought process a little further, beyond this blasted quantum cat!

    What if you put Jesus inside the box?

    Or God?

    Or, as many people seem to believe that God and Jesus are one and the same, and arguing this point with me is about as useful and pragmatic as arguing whether Eminem is better than Vanilla Ice, what will happen if you place your favourite deity inside the box?

    Will HE be there? Or won't HE? (Note: Most deities are male, for obvious reasons)

    Evidently the people who wrote the Bible didn't know about the implications of Schrodinger's cat box experiment. (Note: Reproducing this experiment at home would be rather cruel. Substituting a vulture for the cat would be better, as you'll be helping decrease the rapidly increasing pre-Armageddon vulture population). This is sad, because it's a simple experiment that could have been done even in Biblical times by the great thinkers of the period!

    Surely the brains of JWD can figure out this puzzle?

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    If you put God into a box, you'd probably be a JW, or some other cultist. They love to have a limited god that their finite minds can comprehend fully.

    The God of Christianity exists outside of physical laws, created them, and has mastery over them. He in infinite, and beyond human comprehension.

    But you knew all that, you're just trying to get us all worked up...

  • Abaddon
    Abaddon
    The God of Christianity exists outside of physical laws, created them, and has mastery over them. He in infinite, and beyond human comprehension.

    Err, but your description shows you comprehend him. You subscribed certain qualities, dimensions, even gender.

    Next?

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Err, but your description shows you comprehend him. You subscribed certain qualities, dimensions, even gender.

    I didn't say that nothing about God could be comprehended. That He is beyond comprehension simply means that there are things about Him that cannot be comprehended by humans. There are certainly other things about Him that can be comprehended. For example, we do not need to be able to comprehend how God could have existed for eternity in the past (in other words, without beginning), in order to comprehend that God is all-powerful. The latter is a concept we can wrap our minds around, the former is not.

    As opposed to the gods of cultists, about whom pretty much everything can be explained and understood, at least within the parameters of cult doctrine.

    Edited by - NeonMadman on 11 February 2003 17:17:22

  • Brummie
    Brummie

    Hmmm.... but you can put a cat in a box and assume its state either way, it is physical matter and will fit into a box. How can one put God in a box and do the same experiment and reach a logical conclusion as we could on something physical? Perhaps I have misunderstood the point? QP is the exploration of the energy that comes from matter...right? God is not matter..right?

    In a nutshell God is not quantifiable and therefore would defy the very theory of quantum physics.

    Additionally, concerning the Cat theory, even while both parties could assume either conclusion (superposition =dead or alive or simultanious), both parties still acknowledged the existence of the cat to start with.

    Sorry if I have misunderstood the point, my thinking cap was giving me a headache so I took it off. Thanks for this thread, its very interesting.
    Brummie

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    Since we do not know, the cat is both dead and alive, according to quantum law

    Well, either the cat swallowed it or it didn't, regardless of whether we know whether it did or not. I guess I don't get it.

    Dan, simple-mind class

  • Nowhere
    Nowhere

    re: God is not matter..right?

    We don't even know what matter is in the first place. We dont know what God is either. And the writers of the bible certainly didn't know any of them.

    We have to wait for the theroy of everything, then we can trace the nature of God. Maybe he is a mind-ghost after all?

  • seedy3
    seedy3

    I vote we put the GB in a steel box (of course with holes in it they have to breath), throw it in the ocean and see if they float.

    Seedy

  • D wiltshire
    D wiltshire

    Syn,

    The cat experiment is not a "real" experiment, it is a metaphor used to explain duality and uncertainty that is fundamental to Quantum mechanics and the strange effect that "observation" has on electrons and photons.

    So I don't think your thought experiment has any real relation to Quantum physics.

  • Ed
    Ed
    Well, either the cat swallowed it or it didn't, regardless of whether we know whether it did or not. I guess I don't get it.

    In quantum physics, there is a theory that events at a quantum level (i.e. very very small) are uncertain and exist in different states simultaneously - only when you observe a quantum event or take a measurement is the outcome sealed. It sounds silly, but it seems that's how it works.

    I think the original cat experiment (hypothetical only) involved putting a piece of radioactive material in the box which may or may not emit a single particle, and a phial of poison gas which would be released if it did. In other words, a single quantum event (uncertain, with different outcomes existing simultaneously) decides whether the cat lives or dies. So until the observation is made, is the cat dead, alive, both, or neither...?

    Never mind that the cat is there to observe, and the equipment reacting to the particle is there to observe.

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