VOILA!!! There you have it Random.
The 2300 Daze of Daniel
by refiners fire 40 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Elsewhere
Am I doing something wrong?
March 27, 1919 + 1260 Days = September 7, 1922
Wasn't the "prophecy" supposed to be fulfilled on another date?
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City Fan
Page 301 of the 'Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy' book (1999) has a summary of all the prophetic periods of Daniel.
Prophetic Time Periods In Daniel:
Seven Times (2,520 years): (Daniel 4:6,25) - October 607 BCE to October 1914 CE. (Messianic Kingdom Established.)
Three and a half times: (1,260 days): (Daniel 7:25; 12:7) - December 1914 to June 1918. (Anointed Christians harassed.)
2,300 evenings and mornings: (Daniel 8:14) - June 1 or 15, 1938 to October 8 or 22, 1944. ("Great Crowd" emerge and multiply.)
70 weeks (490 years): (Daniel 9:24-27) - 455 BCE to 36 CE. (Messiah's coming and his earthly ministry.)
1,290 days: (Daniel 12:11) - January 1919 to September 1922. (Anointed Christians awaken and progress spiritually.)
1,335 days: (Daniel 12:12) - September 1922 to May 1926. (Anointed Christians attain a happy state.)
I thought it interesting that 4 out of 6 of these prophetic periods are applied to the 'anointed remnant' or 'Great Crowd', between the years of 1914 and 1944. The WTS applies the 'day for a year' rule to the Seven Times of Daniel 4:6,25 but not to the Three and a Half Times of Daniel 7:25.
How could anyone getting 'harassed' be a fulfillment of bible prophesy? How they get the fulfillment of Daniel 12:12 to be that Anointed Christians attained a 'happy state' in May 1926 is a gem!
Page 303 of the 'Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy' book continues: (my comments in red)
Happiness For The Holy Ones
24. Jehovah's angel concludes his prophecy regarding the holy ones with these words: "Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days!" (Daniel 12:12) The angel gives no clues as to when this period begins or ends. History suggests that it simply follows on the heels of the preceding period. History suggests or is it the WTS suggesting. How does history suggest this? In that case it would run from the autumn of 1922 to the late spring of 1926. Did the holy ones come to a state of happiness by the end of that period? Yes. In important spiritual ways.
25. Even after the convention of 1922 some of God's holy ones were still looking longingly to the past. The basic study material for their meetings was still the Bible and the volumes of 'Studies in the Scriptures' by C. T. Russell. At that time, there was a widely held view that pointed to 1925 as the year for the resurrection to begin and for Paradise to be restored to the earth.
A widely held view? Maybe the bible students thought that Armageddon was coming in that year because that is what the Watchtower Society was telling them. The April 1, 1923 Watchtower p106 stated: "Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge."
Thus, many were serving with a fixed date in mind. Some proudly refused to share in the work of preaching to the public. Once again the rank and file are blamed for fixing dates and now being too proud! Doesn't this remind you of this passage in the Nov 1 1995 Watchtower: "Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah's people have at times speculated about the time when the 'great tribulation' would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914."
This was not a happy state of affairs.
26. As the 1,335 days progressed, however, all of this began to change. (As 1925 came and went without any sign of Armageddon!) Preaching came to the fore, as regular arrangements for everyone to participate in the field ministry were established. (That must have made everyone really happy!) Meetings were scheduled to study the Watchtower each week. The issue of March 1, 1925, carried the historic article "Birth of a Nation" giving God's people a full understanding of what had happened in the 1914-1919 period. (Or an explanation of why yet another prophesy had failed!) After 1925 passed, the holy ones no longer served God with an immediate, explicit deadline in view. Rather, the sanctification of Jehovah's name was paramount. This vital truth was highlighted, as never before, in the January 1, 1926 Watchtower article "Who Will Honor Jehovah?" At the convention in May 1926, the book 'Deliverance' was released. This was one of a series of new books designed to replace Studies in the Scriptures. No longer were the holy ones looking to the past. They were looking confidently to the future and the work ahead. As prophesied, the 1,335 days therefore ended with the holy ones in a happy state.
Happy state? Most were probably very disillusioned by yet another failed Watchtower Society prophecy. This is seen by the stagnation of the WTS numbers in the following decade.
28. With all these prophetic marks to identify "the holy ones of the Supreme One," what excuse can there be for failure to recognize them and associate with them?
This last part should read: "With all the identifying marks of a false prophet, what excuse can there be for failure to recognize the Watchtower Society as such and leave?"
What the Watchtower calls a 'happy state' that fulfills bible prophecy in May 1926 is the result of a failed prediction of resurrection and restoration for 1925, and the resulting disillusionment that followed before a new date was set. This state also existed in 1874, 1914, 1975 and 1994.
This application is so strained as to be laughable.
City Fan.
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bowels
Let me see if I have it right now .........
The GENTILE times the root of DAVID divided by the 12 TRIBES raised to the SECOND WORLD POWER equals something ... some year I think .... but then I remember the tricky part that was discussed at an assembly is where we then take that number and either multiply or divide that by the time, times and half a time? (I always forget which to do) and then I have in my notes that that number is symbolic of something else .....
Sorry ... after 40 years of doing this I am STILL comfused.
*****Smiles
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Farkel
I've posted at length at this particular subject in years past. Fred Franz counted on the laziness and/or stupidity of his followers to pull his shenanigans when it comes to dates. Particularly confusing in the case of Daniel 8 is his deception by using 360 days in a year, instead of 365. The prophecy clearly says "2,300 evenings and mornings" and the Watchtower Corporation argues that the prophecy MEANT ACTUAL days. Days are 24 hours in length regardless of how many days there are in a month, or how many months there are in a year. As I said, Freddie relied on his manufactured credibility as a scholar and the stupidity of his followers to not figure out that simple fact.
Several years ago, I took the time to figure out how many actual days there were between those two dates of June 1, 1938 and October 8, 1944 or June 15, 1938 and October 22, 1944 (same difference.) In doing so, I found out that Freddie LIED, and here is my proof
1938 - June 30 days, July 31 days, August 31 days, September 30 days, October 31 days, November 30 days, December 31 days: 214 days total
1939 through 1943 - 365 1/4 days for each year: 1826 (and 1/4) days days total
1944 - January 31 days, February 28 days, March 31 days, April 30 days, May 31 days, June 30 days, July 31 days, August 31 days, September 30 days: 281 days total
Finally there are 8 days in October 1944 for the culmination date of Freddie's prophecy. So how many ACTUAL days are there between these two dates?
214 + 1826 + 281 = 2,321 days! Even exactly factoring in leap years, this "prophecy" is still off by three weeks!
This is yet another example of the Watchtower Corporation going through ridiculous hoops to make it look like they themselves and their printing business are the fulfillment of major Bible prophecy.
Daniel 8 for Dummies, Parts 1 and 2
Farkel
Edited by - Farkel on 18 January 2003 14:34:45
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refiners fire
City fan
....."2,300 evenings and mornings: (Daniel 8:14) - June 1 or 15, 1938 to October 8 or 22, 1944. ("Great Crowd" emerge and multiply.)".....
See?? Theyve found another fullfillment of it now.(circa 1999) Although its a bit of an airey fairy fullfillment, you could say that the Great crowd is "emerging" and "multiplying" in perpetuum.
Elsewhere
..."March 27, 1919 + 1260 Days = September 7, 1922".....
Basically all of the Biblical time periods 1260/ 1290/ 1335/ 2520 days are fullfilled in the 1920s . The 2300 days is the exception.
Interestingly, the 2300 days are in Daniel chapter 8 and are fullfilled in the 1940s . While the 1290 days are in Daniel 12 yet are fullfilled in the 1920s. Go figure....
Random
....."So let me get this straight, at the beginning of the 2300 days, a watchtower study article came out and then at the end of the 2300 days another watchtower study came out. Fullfillment of prophecy!".....
I understand it that they sit there and work out stupid dates then look for a significant event or watchtower article about that time to latch onto as a message from God directing the org. But then it could be the other way around, who knows.The 2300 days is pretty slender in terms of organizational modification at the 1944 end of the scale so they are dancing a bit. They know theres not much there.Of course between 1938 and 1944 there WAS World War 2, with some accompanying persecution, so they like that aspect, persecution is a signal they like.
Farkmeister .
I seem to recall I did that some time back with the 2520 days and came up with 1934 or there abouts. so the "generation" actually ends in 2004.
Edited by - refiners fire on 18 January 2003 19:13:29
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refiners fire
Damned RED. I leave two lines space and it STILL CROSSES over. Apologies.
Anyway, the 2300 days involves a KING who is FIERCE OF COUNTENANCE who brings down the CONSTANT FEATURE of worship to Jehovah and he throws down STARS too, stamping on them.Now this King is the Anglo American World Power , check out how he fullfills prophecy between 1938 and 1944....
...."Thus it put on great airs even as far up as against the Prince of princes, Jehovah the Sovereign "Prince" of all the universe. His "army of the heavens," that is, Jehovah's anointed remnant who were serving as underpriests in His spiritual "sanctuary," these the Anglo-American World Power cast down, downgrading their being ambassadors for God's Messianic kingdom. Even those who were like "stars" in the congregations of Jehovah's witnesses were considered as inferior, as not being spiritual light bearers to their congregations, not as being spiritual "overseers" entitled to exemption from military conscription, but as being just earthly laymen without theocratic appointments".....
The old WT ploy, throw in some of the terminology from the scripture passages (in parenthesis) and it all adds up, it must be true, divine revelation.
....."The record plainly shows the extent of the wrath of the "king fierce in countenance." He struck hard against Jehovah's witnesses world wide during the dark days of World War II, especially so in countries associated with the British Commonwealth of Nations. On July 4, 1940, the Dominion of Canada, a part of the Commonwealth, banned the work of Jehovah's witnesses. In that same year New Zealand banned the public declaration of Jehovah's name"....
Only problem is the "fierce king" didnt "ban" the work on his own turf ! There wasnt an official ban in America or Britain. Dont you love it?
...."In the United States, while the work of Jehovah's witnesses was not officially banned, there were many attempts made to silence the witnesses".....
The American government sneakily encouraged persecution of the Dubs. And throwing some of the "stars" into dirty prisons for refusing to fight. As for the "constant feature" , the Preaching work....
...."from 1942 when they had 106,000 publishers they only increased by about 4,000 by the end of 1944. Truly the 'offering of the constant feature' was restricted".....
Well I suppose if a city has been bombed to the ground there isnt much point in going from door to door is there.
Edited by - refiners fire on 18 January 2003 19:37:23
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Prisca
RF,
Your trusty little secretary fixed up the red.
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plmkrzy
my head hurts
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refiners fire
"my head hurts"...
So does mine. I wish the Farkmeister hadnt put that up about adding up all the days cause now ive wasted time trying to work out how "crazy Freddie" arrives at his conclusions.He says:
...."2,300 days would amount to six lunar years, four lunar months and twenty days".....
Well it does if you count a year as 360 days, and a month as 30 days. Calculating it out that way would bring you to October 21, 1944 (in my calculation). But Fred doesnt stay in that 360/30 mode when he starts his addition and subtraction,He doesnt even seem to convert his calculations into 365 1/4 day periods (like the farkmeister does) Freddie in the footnotes says:
..."From Sivan 2 (June 1), 1938, six years would end on Sivan 1 (May 23), 1944".....
How anyone can arrive at that conclusion stumps me. Maybe hes working from Jewish calenders ?. Perhaps it could be worked out if you knew the Jewish calender, (and if you were interested enough)