A Message of Hope (page 2)

trevor

Robert,

Why are you so certain that Jesus hears or answers prayers?

With two thirds of the worlds people going to bed hungry,
that is those that have beds, he need to update his communication
system. The Witnesses are all well fed and so are we, so why would
he waste time on any of us. There are more urgent problems to sort
out.

Of course it could just be that its up to us humans to sort out
the problems on our planet. I see no evidence that Jesus has lifted
a finger to help, ever, in the history of the world. It took him many
thousands of years just to turn up and then he spent thirty years a
playing with bits of wood. I'm afraid he won't get my vote.

Liberated

Hi Robert,

Your words echo my own thoughts and the reasons I became inactive in the first place and then disassociated: "Its not about Christ, its about increasing membership, its not about love for man kind, its about love of money, its not about love for you the sheep, its about love for the Society." Sooooooooo true.

Libby
of the liberated class

Carmel

Bugsy,

You have limited the evidence that the WTBTS is interested in $$ only if someone is getting personally weathly. Why is that the only yardstick to measure materialism by? What was the motive for jumping into bed with Jimmy Swaggart about if not purely $$$$ and lots of it?

Money is a measure of power and power is a mismeasure of personal worth. The FDS has them both.

carmel

BugEye

Carmel, you missed the point I was making.

Here is an example, I should have given it in the first place.

When reading the lead comment, someone who is doubting, but afraid
to leave the truth may begin to read. They will get to the part where
he said

These are just a few of the many thousands of "stories they
have made up" to expoit their sheep. But why? Nearly $1,000,000,000.00 dollars is why."

And they will say to themselves, "thats not true, the WTBTS is not
like Jimmy Swaggart, the GB doesnt drive around in Rolls Royce's and
I've never heard any evidence that any of them are wealthy."

And here is the point THEY WILL STOP READING AND THINK "THE BROTHERS
ARE RIGHT AND THESE PEOPLE MUST BE APOSTATES AND THEY LIE" and the
opportunity to help someone escape will be lost.

Whether money is needed to keep power over the "flock" or not is
irrellevant. Power is their aim, and money is a tool and a side
issue.

The point is, $1,000,000,000.00 is NOT why they mislead and mistreat
their flock, which the above statement says. Power, control, pride and
haughtiness are the EVIDENT reasons.

By sticking to EVIDENT reasons, we can help others to see the truth
about the WTBTS which I am sure you agree is most important.

Also Carmel, you stated

"Money is a measure of power ...

Yes Money is A measure of power not THE measure of power.

If that were true, then Ghandi was powerless.
Also, If you believe the bible, what about Jesus.
"nowhere to lay his head" but he started a movement that is "followed"
2000 years later and millions regard his words with reverence.

Power but no material wealth.

Sorry, but they are not interchangable.

Dave

BugEye

Carmel

The reason they jumped into bed with Swaggart Ministries in the
court case was fear of loss.

If they pay tax, or go with the "donation" idea, their power empire
may collapse due to bankruptcy. That is something their pride and
greed for power could not tolerate.

If I am afraid to go bankrupt, does that make me materialistic?
Would it mean that my motivation is "money"?

NO, money is the side issue and although it is tied in, due to the
capitalistic world we live in, it is not the WTBTS aim.

Dave

7robert7

In response to COMF, its seems that youve carried over some of the Societies querks, sorry if I didnt spell that correctly. Para Graphs are a terrible problem for me, as is correct spelling. I guess its just the foreigner in me, yes I'm an import.:) I notice that about many of the witnesses that I've run into, always playing the part of Jehovahs little sanitation engineer, always feeling the need to correct those in need, so I thank you.:) As to larc making the assumption that I'm lying about everything, including my meeting with the elders today, I can only respond with there names and congregation, there names were Mike Hamilton, and John Peterson of the Wickliffe Ohio congregation, of which my wife Dana and her parents John and Nancy are members of. As to wether I was denied or not, I can't prove this point, as it seems that most of the people that ran this site appear to be gone as I recognize only one name, NC.
I think NC gave me a posative response when I asked to be put on. I do remember someone called ManofTrueGod or something similar leaving the forum because he didnt like the Society bashing that was going on. Maybe some here remember him. He was Phillapeano if I'm not mistaken. Also when responding to some of the people on this site through email, I used the adress, Robbydobbydoo, see if that rings a bell with some of you, there was a rather large warning on the forum concerning deleting any mail recieved by an apostate going by the email adress mentioned. Funny thing though, my wife tells me that apostates are those who leave the truth, I was never in your version of the truth, so no offense was taken. My response to the crying bit, have either larc or SixofNine ever had Jehovah place a burden upon your heart for the lost that was so heavy that sleepless nights became the norm. Have either of you given 5 years of your life serving God in the missions field as I have, have either of you looked into the face of a hungry Mexican child, and wished that you could give them more then the measily food that the ministry provides. Set Free Ministries, in Anaheim, California was the place, while there, I slept in the same room with the same homeless and drug addicted people that we preached to, and then brought home to help. Set Free was a true church, it didnt just preach, it did. You see, Pastor Phil Aguilars motto was, "If we dont have room, we'll make room." The church owned 5 homes at the time and used them to help people get away from the street life. They preached Christ, not to gain members for the church, which at that time was 3,000 and many of them being street people it sure as heck wasnt about the money, because most of the congregation was dirt poor. It was about, love for Christ and His message of Hope. Something that witnesses seem to lack. What other faith would teach its people that even if they live good and faithful lives that failing the final test would doom them to annihilation. I couldnt live under that type of immense pressure, thank Jehovah that I have Jesus to lean on in trying times, and thank Jehovah that Christs sacrifice and forgiveness is something that not even Satan could take away from me, something that even in my imperfections wont doom me. Its a gift folks, and Jehovah isnt an indian giver. He doesnt take back your salvation everytime for instants you say damn as Sixof Nine did in his prior response. Thank you BugEye for your constructive critacism, thank you Liberated for your response, and yes thank you to even larc and Sixofnine for showing my witness wife just how nasty people of her faith can be. She didnt believe me until she read your sweet responses, "a mans own words can be a real killa sometimes." I think the Bible teaches that Jehovah will hold us accountable for every word we utter. Hmmmm. God Bless. Para Graphs, I dont need no steeenkin Para Graphs...LOL:)

Flip

Para Graphs, I dont need no steeenkin Para Graphs...LOL:)

To see if there might be useful information enclosed, I only read the first and last sentence of your post robert, because the rest of it appears daunting without paragraphs.

When I read your last statement above, it reminded me of a comment either Cygnus, or Alan F. (AF) once made . Where, either one, gave an example of why it’s important to express yourself “here” in the best possible light, “…because, if you don’t, it’s like showing up at a party with a “booger” hanging from your nose.”

“Yours” is quite large, so I’ll refrain from looking at “you” any longer, until you wipe.

Flip

ZazuWitts

Robert,

Welcome,

I sincerely believe that you have this site 'mixed-up' with another place you posted...as Logical has suggested.

At any rate, what happened with the meeting you had scheduled with the elders earlier today?

larc

Flip,

I am sorry if I offended you. Perhaps I misunderstood your post. Who told you that you could not post here? Was it the JWs or someone else? No one here has ever told that to anyone. Either this was told to you by the JWs or you are confusing us with some other discussion group.

The reason I responed so sharply is that we have had a number of very damaging frauds here recently, and I reacted in that context. I am sorry that I got you confused with some malicious trolls we have seen lately.
I wish you well, and I hope you get through you present delema unscathed.

larc

Excuse me - my last post was directed at Robert, not Flin.

A Message of Hope

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