A Message of Hope
Excuse me - my last post was directed at Robert, not Flip.
I except your apology larc, and thank you for your kind words.
As to wether or not this is the site that denide me, there is absolutely no doubt that this is the very site. This is the only site that I visited back then, that at the time of my denial was as the header states "Discussion Forum for JW's".
My wife whom is a witness definately agrees with me, and read the denial I recieved from one of the sites web masters at the time.
I'm surprised that no one here remembers ManofTrueGod, he posted often in the Bible forum, in support of the Societies teachings.
Again, he left due to the lack of loyalty and mistrust that was growing among the witnesses on this forum toward the Society and its teachings.
In response to how the meeting went with the two elders, well it was kind of a mixed bag to be honest.
We were discussing why the Society teaches that Jesus Christ is the archangel Michael, when neither the Old Testament nor the New Testament call Him an angel.
What I meant by mixed bag, was that whenever we would reach a point in the discussion where it became difficult for them to stick to scripture and scriture alone they would attempt to change the subject.
This came to be abit frustrating after spending the first half hour trying to keep them on the subject at hand.
It appeared to be difficult when at first they told me that archangel was in the singular, meaning that there was only one archangel mentioned in scripture, and that this one archangel was used in reference to Jesus.
But when I read at Daniel 10:13 that Michael was just "one of the chief princes" they got silent.
I went on to explain that scripture stated that there were others like him, that he was not unique, when Christ by its very nature means annointed, and the word Son in Son of God by nature means unique and one of a kind.
We never got past the first of five verses that we were going to study concerning Michael.
They were also caught a bit of gaurd by the fact that the Society taught that Micael was the pope of Rome, then taught that he was definately not Jesus and then to what they now teach.
I also brought up the point that the Watchtower states that they "whom we believe to be Jesus Christ" instead of whom we know to be.
It just doesnt sound to reassuring, and that if they cant state that they know that he is Jesus they shouldnt teach this as "truth."
They promised to come back in two weeks. I'll let you know what happens then. God Bless.
I've just spent 20 minutes typing only to press the wrong button, my post to you as gone. I'll try again but a bit more briefly.
I feel we've had enough of the judgemental attitude of the Borg, many still display on this forum eg; can I trust anyone that is "worldly" (I hate that word) you can only trust other JW's attitude!
I'd rather trust you, you seem genuine to me. If I am proved wrong later then "oh well".
Yes I remember ManofTrueGod, I think he posted on H2O too.
your Bro. Qwerty
I still think you have this place confussed with H20. There are no moderators here. Simon started this wonderful site, and rarely interferes with posts. He does so only when someone has been extremely abusive, and I am sure that that would not apply to you. Querty, you are new, and no one with the name that you and Robert have mentioned has come here since I started in early December. This group started in March of last year, and I am sure that those who have posted since day one could comment on the name in question.
>This group started in March of last year, and I am sure that those who have posted since day one could comment on the name in question.<
Was there a discu.. group before this called Jehovahs_Witness.com (note the dash position) or Jehovahs-Witness.net Jehovahs-Witness.co.uk .
The one Robert is talking about did exist and look very sim to this board not H2O.
You would have ask that question of Simon. As far as I know, this is his first and only discussion group. Given what I have learned about him, I do not believe that Simon would treat Robert the way he described.
Thank you qwerty, for your kind words. Most people that know me personally describe me as a gentle spirit.
I'm not one for arguing, and inspite of what many may think I consider myself open minded, more so then the many Jehovahs Witnesses that I've met in my lifetime.
When I met with the two elders yesterday, one comment that Mike made really struck me as rather negative.
He asked me that if I was set in my ways (an assumption) then why did I ask to meet with them?
He didnt see the point in us discussing the topic at hand when it appeared to him that I was closed minded to their teachings.
Its odd that he didnt see the close mindedness in his own logic, that being that we were discussing scripture in context.
I got the impression that I was nothing more then a potential convert, who had no right questioning the Societies teachings.
I sat back and listened to there uderstanding of what they felt the scriptures were trying to teach, without interruption, even when he asked me to respond, and I did this out of respect for him.
On the other hand when I started to share my understanding concerning the scriptures. it turned into an attack.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but do Witness go into these studies with the mind set that I'm the enemy right from the outset?
I've read some pretty harsh words concerning people of my faith by the Society in the Watchtower and Awake magazines.
What ever happened to believing the statement Christ made in
"You have heard that the law of Moses says,'Love your neighbor' and hate your enemy.
But I say, love your enemies!Pray for those who persecute you!
In that way, you will be acting as true children of your Father in heaven.
For he gives his sunlight to both the evil and the good, and he sends rain on the just, and the unjust, too.
If you love only those who love you, what good is that?
Even corrupt tax collectors do that much.
If you are kind only to your friends, how are you different from anyone else? Even pagans do that.
But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.
Jesus came to show the people that Jehovah was God to all people, not just the Jews.
The Pharisees were unjust with their own people, let alone with the Gentiles, so you could imagine the anger they felt when Christ taught other then what they new to be the truth.
He knew that if he made them look at themselves and judge themselves in the same manner that they judged others, that this would lead to his own death.
Granted, I wont lose my life as Christ did for making the Society look at itself, by studying with its elders.
On the other hand, Jesus wont judge as harshly the followers of the orginization, as he will its leaders.
Read Matthew chapter 23 to get a better understanding of what I'm saying.
Really think about what the chapter teaches, and see if any of this might apply to the Society.
The Catholic church surely falls under this condemnation, for they claim that if one is not a Catholic he will surely see annihilation.
Does the Watchtower Society base a mans salvation upon membership? I certainly hope not, for this would put her in the same catagory as the Catholic church. Well, times short so I have to be going now, family first. God Bless. Rely upon the spirit of truth for all that the Scripture have to teach, not man.
I think you are close to answering your own questions. Yes, you are the enemy if you try to prove the Elders wrong. Yes, they believe that you are of Satan if you are not a member or someone who will become a member of their religion. I think you said that your wife is/was a JW. She should be able to confirm what I have said here. You can show scriptures as to why they shouldn't be that way, but that doesn't change what they are. No, they don't feel love for others.
Thanks a bunch Robert, for putting in the "spaces"!
Although I wouldn't call them paragraphs, "spaces" still makes your posts much easier for us "older" folks to read. And I really appreciate the attempt.
“A distinct division of written or printed matter that begins on a new, usually indented line, consists of one or more sentences, and typically deals with a single thought or topic or quotes one speaker's continuous words”
Looking forward to reading more of your posts, keep em' comin'.
Thank you Flip, its nice to see that someone appreciates my efforts. I'll eventually get this whole paragraph thing down.
And as far as old, how old do you "old" folks think I am?
Its been a real pleasure being able to discuss some of my thoughts with you old folks. :) I appreciate every response wether positive or negative.
And thank you larc for your continued responses. God Bless.