Nothing Hurts Like This

by JT 33 Replies latest jw friends

  • LovesDubs

    JT! Dont you DARE leave me! Maybe your concentration of much needed advice and love has shifted from those still IN to those already OUT my dear ME. Please dont leave us. We need your love and your big ol understanding arms, you and Lady C. Pleeeeaaassse...

    Take a break from being Spiderman for awhile :) But dont leave your insight packed away in the box with the costume

    Love, Dawn

  • willdabeerman

    JT, hey dude. come on man please dont leave. i enjoy reading your posts. the insight and the knowledge you have is impressive. i hope you dont leave man. but if u decide to(and i hope not). good luck, and youll be sorely missed. well i still hope ull stay...

  • blondie

    JT and others,

    After years in an alcoholic/abusive family and as an adult working with alcoholics and addicts, all I can say is do what you can and let go (and let God says AA). I was an "enabler" for so many years thinking I was godlike and could change people. Not so. You can point people in the right way, give them the proper tools, and be encouraging, but in the end they have to put forth the consistent effort. They have to see and feel the pain they are in is worse than the pain they have to go through to change.

    Blondie (it took 10 years for it to sink in for me)

  • expatbrit


    If you feel you need a break, then take a break! This DB is not real life, and if it starts to impact negatively on real life, that's a good sign that a refreshing period of recuperation in reality would be a good thing.

    Having said that, once you've taken some classes, make sure you bring"big black ass" (is a honkey allowed to say that?) back here and tell us about them.

    As for your correspondent, I agree with Farkel that her reasoning is primarily an avoidance measure so that she doesn't have to keep thinking about the uncomfortable things you're telling her. While I personally would not post entire emails verbatim on the db, you didn't reveal anything personal, and her reaction is emotional, not rational.

    If you do decide to stop posting for a bit, I'll look forward to your return, as your posts are always on the mark.

    Take care,


  • outnfree


    Well, THIS ex-JW has benefitted TWICE from your delightful phone calls, (over and above all the wonderful posts made to this discussion board) phone calls which encouraged me tremendously in my efforts to move on from the pain of discovering "the Lie" and then my decision to further my education even at this late date. (DON'T remind me how old I am! LOL)

    Of course, I have to say that I would be right there along with (((((Lady C))))) slapping you upside the head for cutting and pasting that lady's e-mails on the Board, but, as others have pointed out

    1/ your motive was the best, and

    2/ this poor woman has been made uncomfortable by your confirmation of her doubts, and is retreating from what her brain knows to be true until her emotions can deal with it. (I think we've all been there.)

    I start school again in two days and it will mean more time away from here and from JW/ex-JW issues. I see that as a positive. For both of us.

    Enjoy your sabbatical, but please, weigh in from time to time, "Professor!" You have a lot of wisdom to pass on to many, still.



  • Shutterbug

    Farkels post,

    Though I MAY, on more than a few occasions, have questioned whether or not I wanted to be one of Jehovahs Witnesses and I MAY at some point decide that I dont, I can assure you that I would never contact you again.

    Translation: "I have no arguments and you pissed me off, so I will never talk to you again."

    : It is really unfortunate that you felt the need to post our email exchanges on because to be honest with you, I actually thought that you may have been sincerely interested in me as a person.

    Translation: "Your arguments are irrelevant because in my opinion, you are not interested in ME as a person. (Do you smell a red-herring here, James? )

    : But the fact is, the only interest you have is your viewpoint, your opinion and yourself the same things for which you condemn the organization.

    Translation: you are a selfish jerk because I cannot rebut your arguments.

    : I am so glad that I did not provide you with any personal information about myself as you probably would have posted that on also.

    Translation: since I can't address your arguments, I must conclude that you are out to destroy me and and my life and I'm grateful that I never told you enough to allow you to do that.

    : I truly feel sorry for you.

    Translation: Screw you, James, and my imaginery friend will KILL you because your DARED try to help me out!

    Outnfrees' post

    2/ this poor woman has been made uncomfortable by your confirmation of her doubts, and is retreating from what her brain knows to be true until her emotions can deal with it. (I think we've all been there.)

    These two have hit the nail on the head !! In short you ain't the problem, she is, and the sooner you get that thru your head the better off you will be. Hopefully she will take a second look at what you are trying to tell her and have a change of heart. However, let's not hold our collective breaths until that happens. Bug

    Edited by - shutterbug on 5 January 2003 10:52:26

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex

    Hey JT, I just wanted to tell you how much your posts have helped me. I've been preparing for the inevitable elder visit to my wife and your posts regarding the elders' mindset has been invaluable to me. I particularly liked it when you mentioned a couple of brothers' names at Legal (that made me laugh out loud).

    The thing about helping other people is that many times they don't realize they need help. And so you end up getting burned. I've been there. Yes, sometimes a break is needed. Even Jesus needed them on occasion and he was supposed to have his act together. But it still hurts and I'm sorry for what you're feeling. Just know how much you've helped other people, though you may never have knew it.


  • LeslieV

    You know the old can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink..That is exactly what you experienced. Even though I have not been around along time I have really enjoyed your posts. As one poster put it maybe it is time to put your energy into those that have left and not the ones still in. It is there journey and only they can leave. Those that have left are many times in worse shape then those that stay in the clan. Please re-consider leaving or please come back once you have a break.


  • Cicatrix

    Hi JT,

    When I read the lady's response to your post, I had to laugh. I was her just a short year ago. When people tried to point out the inconsistencies in WT teachings, I would just shut down and refuse to listen. But, the hurt continued--being a woman with an unbelieving husband was just about as bad as being a single sis in my congregation--and I did finally realise that there was nothing I could ever do to gain their acceptance, and that in fact, it wasn't my failure to follow the program, the problem WAS the program.

    I was like you when I started school, only it was in communications class that I was asking all of my questions. My teacher also discerned there was "something more" about me, and I actually ended up in tears telling her about leaving the WTS and the struggle with my own abusive marriage. She happens to work for a women's shelter, so understood a bit about spiritual abuse,and gave me a book to read which helped much. What I learned about paradigms and paradigm paralysis in that class helped me to understand why many of my friends in the congregation who had very severe doubts could still not leave. If you get a chance, you may want to learn about them.

    I, like you, find myself a bit agitated while on break, and I look forward to class starting again. But I'm coming to the realization that as great as school is, it is not the whole and sum of the real world, either. Finding a balance after coming out of such a dogmatic, tightly scheduled organisation is hard work!

    I hope you continue to post here from time to time. It's refreshing to hear a man discuss the unfairness of life in the org so candidly. I've learned a lot from you and the others here.

    Whatever you decide, JT, just remember that your heart was in the right place. You didn't intend any harm to her-you were trying to help. But like anyone with an addiction or problem that needs to be dealt with, you can't force a change in someone who's not ready to make a change. You may have left a point with her that may resonate someday, that she will return to and reason on and understand. That' s what happened to me. I didn't respond right away, but eventually the point WAS taken, the person's sincerity was understood.

    I wish you and yours peace and happiness.

    Thanks again,


  • no one
    no one
    you can take a horse to water but you can't make them drink

    Or said another way: You can lead a JW to logic, but you can't make them think.

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