Nails in The WT Coffin

by hillbilly 24 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillbilly

  Nails in the WT Coffin-- what kind of Nails?

  A while back I posted my opinion that the WT's demise would come at the hand of the "Home Grown" legal department. In my scenario I see the Lawyers flitering cash out and creating legal manuvers to protect the players ( like any other corporate "legal theft"). Technology will be the second handfull of nails to be drivin into the WTBS coffin.

  We all know the WTBS has an ongoing, yet paranoid, facination with the World Wide Web. They attempt to use it as a marketing tool to "Advertise the King and His Kingdom. At the same time they vigourously ask the membership to avoid the "apostate" leanings that mey be found out here in the Cyber world. The thing the "Corporation" forgets is every business leaves a "paper trail" which can be used to document history and activities of said "Corporation".

  The Watchtower is in the publication game. Pure and simple. The product is WORDS- and we all know that words have been collected and bound in books over the years. The years and years of WT editorializing on psuedo-theology, medical issues, internal adminstrative processes and other issues have evolved (in some cases changed without rhyme or reason). Paper publishing makes comparison of the information tedious and well, in my opinion, most folks (unless they are professional reasearchers) won't always make the connection on issues they are trying to compare.

  The Technology I am refering too is "home grown"- right in little ole Patterson NJ. THE WATCHTOWER CD-ROM. The OLD BOYS screwed the Pooch when they elected to format nearly 100 years of documentation on a easy to use, modern delivery system.

  They have also underestimated the audience the product was published for. MOM and DAD ( who can't set a VCR clock) find the CD-ROM a novelty. Yet anyone who uses computers these days ( like the under 35 crowd and every kid in the free world) and knows how to retreive and compare data from format like CD ROM can get an immediate sense of WT "New Light" and the drastic changes that "new light" sheds on doctrins and dogmas. These folks (by many estimates) are now leaving the "Flock" at a rate that is more than a trickle.

  Whats the old saying- somthing about "enough rope and you will hang yourself"? The "Blessing" of The WT CD will be a curse. Many of the articulate, informed comments we find on this ( and other) boards have been formed using the CD . I really doubt that many would have the patience to do the reasearch and comparisons working strictly in a paper format.

  The Lawyers will kill the money tree (greed). The Spritual and intellectual rape will run off the people. (thereby killing the market for the published product). Aren't these the two constants that seem to be found in any business failure, especially the demise of long term, established companies? As a side note-- I expect that the sale of Brooklyn properties will create some huge internal scandal. The sale of the Brooklyn properties will produce a massive cash flow (and we all know how crooked lawyers and managers LOVE lotsa loose cash floating around).

  So for any of you WT spies reading this here is your new rumor for the day.

  The Society will be recalling all CD Roms.

  The Internet is evil-- but the personal PC is the spawn of Satan Hiself-- Brothers and sisters should give up their PC's unless required by "Ceasar" or business.

  HB

  Edited by - hillbilly on 30 December 2002 8:44:13
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  Scully

  Does anyone remember - now this was back in the early 80s - when the WTS recalled a bunch of older publications from KH literature counters?? Most of the publications were ones that related to 1975 "prophecies", and some were old Rutherford hack jobs. The rationale? The books were full of "old light" that had been brought up to date with newer publications. They had become obsolete. That was the official reason. But the early 80s was also a time of high anxiety for the WTS. Ray Franz left the GB and was later DFd for apostasy. There was a huge exodus from congregations in an almost unknown city called Lethbridge, Alberta when Jim Penton was disfellowshipped for apostasy. What was the source of the apostasy?? Those people who became "apostate" were long-time JWs, some were third generation JWs, and they had most, if not all, of the publications of the WTS. These were people who loved research, loved gleaning every glimmer of truth from the pages of the WTS books and magazines. It was the WTS's changing light and the refusal of these people to grasp on to damaged Christianity and so-called "new light" that made them apostate.

  It has often been said that Charles Taze Russell would not recognize JWs as having come from the group of Bible students he founded. I even once made that remark to an elder: "CT Russell would be an apostate if he were resurrected to earth right now and repeated some of the beliefs he held in the late 1800's and early 1900's!" The elder responded that "Brother Russell would be humble enough to accept the New Light that had developed over the last century, and would still want to worship Jehovah and be part of his Organization."

  I have a feeling that the CD-ROMs won't be recalled. What might happen is that new CD-ROMs will come out every 5 years or so, and that the WTS will find some clever way of just telling the R&F that the old ones are obsolete. They'll get thrown away, or formatted, before anyone bothers checking the new version against the old one. What will happen is that the newer CD-ROMs will omit damaging information against the WTS, so that they can say "we never said that", and JWs will be so intellectually lazy that they won't have the fortitude to do the research on their own in the magazines and bound volumes. The WTS will keep them busy - as they always have - concentrating on the preaching work and meeting attendance and studying for the next meeting.

  Love, Scully
• 

  Patriot

  I agree Scully,

  Just like they did with the Aid to Bible understanding book.
• 

  JT

  hillbilly

  you are deep- it has often been said that Information is power, it is a well known and proven fact that keeping control of the flow of information has always been the key to controling masses of folks-

  i recall in my black history class why it was so important to key blacks from learning to read, when you read the accounts of the effort that went into preventing them it is simply amazing, and the excellent point you have made in ref to the under 35 crowd THEY HAVE NO FEAR OF THE NET unlike the older jw- and yes that CDROM IS NO MORE THAN A 100YR TIME LINE and it is only when you layout the wt dogma does it often time start to show the pattern, often times dogma flips taken by themselves don't show up like they do when they are all layed out on the table at one time- the way a cdrom does- some of the web sites here are almost frightening when you look at the time lines that some former jw have put together

  your post is truly on the money
• 

  metatron

  I wish I could agree with you but....I'm afraid you're wrong.

  The Society ran a campaign years back to sell off 196 page books to the public
  even though those books contained errors and tainted chronology. Some of those books
  were written by 'apostates' like Ray Franz or Dunlap (the Commentary on James, for
  example). You see, THEY JUST DIDN'T CARE (except about a resource of contributions).

  The Society doesn't have to care. The 'friends' will buy into any lie or nonsense
  they devise. Doctrine is almost completely malleable, over time. The Bible students
  are long gone, replaced by dupes, stooges, and air-heads who will believe anything they're
  told. Just look at the aftermath of the UN and child molesting scandals!

  Who will protest? Old-Timers who know better? Not likely! They just want to hold on
  to their families - and so keep their mouths shut.

  Let me repeat myself: This is the Watchtower's future - Witnesses who are dumber
  and crazier - and a leadership that is deliberately cynical.

  The more Witnesses I talk to - with their marriages and families falling apart,
  with their interest in quack health therapies, with their isolation deepening from
  more and more appeals to SHUN - convinces me that this prediction is valid.

  metatron
• 

  link

  Interesting post but:

  Scully

  Ray Franz left the GB and was later DFd for apostasy

  Can you clarify this for me. I never understood it to have happened like that.

  link
• 

  JT

  I wish I could agree with you but....I'm afraid you're wrong

  i don't think it is so much a RIGHT OR WRONG as much as it is THESE ARE THE VARIOUS WAYS THAT WT IS BEING IMPACTED

  yes we see that many jw are digging thier hills in for the long haul, accepting anything coming out of brooklyn,

  yet at the same time we have a new breed of jw, ones who are no where as loyal as the jw of old, many much more liberal in thier views,-

  i recall a time when after a convention many families would go home and see if the wife could quit work and pioneer, sacrifice for the kingdom, now most working sisters laugh at such a suggestion, now does that mean that no families put momma out in the pioneer work, of course not, but the zeal just ain't there

  when i was a young man, we cut the grass at the hall, did stuff for the old folks, tried to comment as much as we could, we would prepare the #2 talk hoping that someone would not show up- WE WANTED TO REACH OUT

  today's young jw think it is a joke, in fact during times when they need examples for youth and familes to be on the conventions THEY ARE HAVING A HARDER TIME FINDING THEM

  SOMETIMES THEY use the same family on multiple conventions cause they can't find enough-

  so it not so much as this or that will be the only way wt is impacted, but it is being assaulted on many fronts, both exterally and interally

  when i was growing up we used to get into arguements with householders ALL THE TIME over

  Hell and who goes to Heaven, Holidays, etc- now the avg jw hasn't spoken to a householder in months and let alone anytype of arguement, on the avg most jw never get to open their bible to prove anything in the door to door- and the apathy is killing jw everywhere , esp in the WEST-

  EVERY single point you made i believe is correct, for wt today is not suffering from just one problem

  but i will say this from all the info i have gotten in the last 2 yrs the Legal Dept and the Accounting (treasurer dept) are for the most part running bethel

  Writing is almost a second thought, i mean come on look at what they are producing CUT AND PASTE-

  SO wt will never go away in my view cause they sell hope and man will always need hope

  and there will always be folks who despite all the facts, proof and evidence will line up to buy thier next installment of HOPE-

  hey even Jim and Tamy Faye Baker followers still waiting for them to return to the days of GLORY

  THis is why Lady "C" and I must start us a church

  Edited by - jt on 30 December 2002 10:28:57
• 

  hillbilly

  The "recall" statement is a bit of a pun (but ya'll know that). The Fact is the only ones who will change are the ones who want to change.

  The Watchtower will continue to EDIT and IMPROVE the product-No doubt about it. And "lazy" will continue to be "led" by the shepherd.

  I know for me- back in the "paper days" building any argument (pro or con) was very time consuming. The tool (CD) is 'sposed to help students study the bible right? What is the biggest venue for all this "study" to be used? The MINISTRY SCHOOL.

  Hey --for 2003 the Loving Brothers see a need to revamp the School to a reading practice group. This Creates two possibilites- the sincere "Bible Student" now has more time to reasearch stuff cause the TMS personal study is now a "slam dunk". And we all know what happens to legitimate "bible students" after enough time in the Tower--Many leave. The second is that some of the dupes will have even more "dumb questions" to tie up the elders time. (we all remember those folks, "please explain this, I need clarification")

  Either way- this will keep the pressure on --- The Society's ability to shoot self in own foot never ceases to amaze me. And I think that the ablity to "step in it and not get smelly" is starting to erode. Honesty and Documentation will always break fraud and lies. It just takes a while for it to happen.

  Those that are lazy , co-dependant or just to scared or ignorant to leave will be among us till God's will is done (whatever that might be). But the CD rom means, "Millions now wanting to leave BS behind can leave faster and more efficiently than ever before"

  Metaron--

  The Society ran a campaign years back to sell off 196 page books to the public
  even though those books contained errors and tainted chronology. Some of those books
  were written by 'apostates' like Ray Franz or Dunlap (the Commentary on James, for
  example). You see, THEY JUST DIDN'T CARE (except about a resource of contributions

  yes-- you are correct -- but the point Skully makes it that those Books (and 99%) of all placed Liturature becomes a "non-issue" in the hands of the public. They generally go to "file 13" before Brother Publisher shuffles back to the car. The Society does not wish to keep this stuff around as it "confuses" the brothers.

  Some one correct me, but I remember a few years back the Society advised Kingdom Hall Librarys to thin out older books. I know our extensive collection of Russel and Rutherford Era books went home with some members.
• 

  No Apologies

  Interesting theories, but some of your statements are off. The CD-Rom Watchtower library has nowhere near 100 years of publications on it. More like 20 or 30, tops. Even then it can be sparse- Awake only back to 1970, I believe. And of course it contains only the latest revision of publications like the Truth book, with nothing to indicate the changes. The society is not that stupid.

  And I have never heard of any recall or thinning of the Kingdom Hall libraries. Our local Hall has a fairly complete set of Studies in the Scriptures, along with a book of Pastor Russell's sermons. Fascinating reading.

  But I do agree that the current generation are becoming much more apathetic. Which means the next generation will probably be leaving at an even higher rate. Too bad for the book publishing company.
• 

  no one

  Here ya go, Hillbilly,

  Your phrase struck a chord:

  "Millions now wanting to leave BS behind can leave faster and more efficiently than ever before"

  Let's make it: "Millions now living will read a lie."