Athiests and Christmas?

by clash_city_rockers 105 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  clash_city_rockers

  Skeptic demonstrates his lack of clear thinking and obviously self-refuting and inconsistent ways when he admits.

  It would seem rather silly for an atheist to be singing "Joy to the World" or "Hark the Angels Sing", wouldn't it? I have done exaclty that as an atheist. Windrider wanted me to attend a church service with her on Xmas eve, and I gladly did. I got right into it, too. It was wonderful. Stirred up a lot of great emotions.

  I see Sentamentality rules over "Clear Thinking"

  And continues to posts

  As an atheist, I am free to pick and choose what traditions and customs I want to follow.

  Sure you can do as you please as far as worshiping religious holidays are so, but you are being inconsistent with your atheist dogma which according to its teachings and assertions that these religious holidays dont have a right to exists. Your can celebrate Christmas and violate and go against the atheist credo and dogma that there is no god or you can live consistently with what you vehemently and rigorously are passionate about and that is your dogmatic claim that there is no god.

  Keep up with the clear thinking,

  jr

  Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 18 December 2002 4:56:4
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  clash_city_rockers

  I suspect that Skeptic is more into the shopping malls of man made religion and just being plain religious than he is up holdinding his atheist dogma.
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  funkyderek

  I'm just going to quote myself here because clash is repeating himself:

  Bizarrely, Clash seems to have ignored everything that's been written by atheists in this thread and continued to refer to atheism as if it were a religion, specifically one set up in opposition to Christianity.

  I feel confident that anybody with any reasoning ability would have been able to understand what I - and other atheists - have posted in this thread by now. Clash seems either unwilling or unable to do so. I'm getting sick of talking to myself so I'll just wish clash a merry Christmas and put him on ignore.
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  Sirona

  I agree with you, Derek.

  He continues to make ridiculous claims about paganism aswell. I wish the guy would get an education (he must have his dictionary next to him so that he can use long words - inappropriately. Plus, I don't think he realises what a full stop is).

  Sirona
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  clash_city_rockers

  Funky you seem to mystify me. On one hand you are so insistent that there is no such thing as a god. Then you turn around and capitulate your atheist standard that you allegedly hold to so passionately and betray your atheist beliefs and celebrate a holiday that is centered in proclaiming a historic theistic event that you are so desperate to deny. The contradiction is so blatant that anyone who was true to the propagation of atheism would see you as a traitor and a sell out to the cause. In fact the cult of old Soviet communism, which is truly more a consistent an atheistic system than kind of pseudo atheism that you subscribe to would prosecute you for being a traitor to the dogmas of atheism. So Funky is your car in the garage (true atheism) or is your car not in the garage (quasi atheism that capitulates to theistic Christianity and celebrates Christmas)? Where is Funkys car? Funky, I am not trying to pick on you I am glad when you borrow capitol from the Christian world view and enjoy the celebration of birth of our Lord during Christmas I just want you to think through some of your dogmatic yet passionate assertions and hope that you will see them as incredulous. I truly do pray for you and ask the Lord Jesus Christ to have mercy on you and give you faith in Him that you would truly someday give glory to God to your benefit and that you would be one of the elect and come to faith in Christ.

  Grace and Peace,

  jr

  Sirona,

  Believe me if Funky were ever truly consistent to the dogmas of atheism then he would be true to his worldview and mock and make fun of your pagan pantheon. Any true atheist would look at your pagan deities and laugh and say gee Sirona, you are wasting your time and energy praying to those pagan gods, or Sirona havent you heard of science...it disproves paganism. Why would you take sides with a philosophical position that negates your own. The official doctrines of atheism claim that the religious practices of pagans whether it be hugging a tree, praying to a lizard or the sun (like the sun has ears) or smoking some dope and start spacing out and calling it meditating or howling at the moon or what ever it is pagans do, atheism calls it vain and stupid because there is no pagan god or otherwise.

  BTW Sirona please dont get upset with my description of paganism. Paganism does not have a central body of beliefs hence there is no singular systematic theology that encompasses this individualistic belief system. Since paganism is individualistic in doctrine. That is according to once taste you can make up any old doctrinal preference and call it paganism. Like sucking on a frogs back to get high or find some hopeless cute puppy and cut him up into pieces and call it paganism. Dont get mad at me this is YOUR religion so take responsibility for it. Paganism is an anti atheist religion since a belief in a god even a pagan god is anti atheistic doctrine.

  I am not trying to be incendiary or offensive I just want you to think through the position of your pagan worldview. Hopefully you will see the futility of placing your trust on the creation for eternal hope. Trust Jesus Christ

  Peace love and happiness,

  jr

  Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 18 December 2002 7:24:39
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  Xander

  No, what he is saying is:

  1) There is no such thing as god

  2) Christmas is not a solely religious holiday

  3) Thus, celebrating christmas is NOT acknowledging 'gods' existence

  4) Even if it WAS 'acknowledging gods existence' (it isn't) he could STILL choose to celebrate it because an atheist DOES NOT OPPOSE GOD YOU DIMWIT. He just doesn't believe he exists. What's so hard to understand about this?

  If I told you Dec 31st/Jan 1st was my invisible friends birthday, and by celebrating ANYTHING on January 1st, you'd be celebrating my invisible friend's birth and thus acknowledging you are a liar as a christian and wholely worship my invisible friend, what would your reaction be?

  It would be: WTF are you talking about? Your invisible friend has no meaning to me, I'll do whatever I want on Jan 1st!!

  That's EXACTLY what Funky is saying about Dec 25th. You can claim it has whatever meaning you want TO YOU - it does NOT mean it has that meaning to ANYONE else, and, thus, they can do WHATEVER they want to or not want to, on that day.

  Edited by - Xander on 18 December 2002 8:17:38
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  funkyderek

  I couldn't help myself and took him off ignore to see his reply. I wish I hadn't bothered. He just lowers the signal-to-noise ratio of the thread.
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  larc

  Clash, I already explained my position, but let me try this once again. I put a tree and decorate it. I buy presents for my family and friends, and they do the same for me. On Dec. 25, we have folks over for a nice dinner. Now, I don't care if some of this is of pagan origins. I don't care if some commemorate Christ's birth. I don't. I simply have a nice day with pretty things around me and the joy of family altogether. Oh yes, I do think that some Christmas songs are real pretty. I listen to them for their prettiness, not for their content, which I could care less about.
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  Skeptic

  Perfect explaination, larc. It is strange how some people on this thread don't get such a simple concept. I'll bet they ponder how someone can be a JW and yet be a fornicator. After all, if someone attends a Kingdom Hall at least once a year, they must believe all of the JW teachings, right? Obviously, they are incapable of attending a Kingdom Hall for any other reason, right?

  Now to look at the amusing things said about me:

  I see Sentamentality rules over "Clear Thinking"

  Sometimes, yes. I am human afterall. And what is wrong with that? Who said I have to follow some strict atheistic lifestyle?

  Sure you can do as you please as far as worshiping religious holidays are so, but you are being inconsistent with your atheist dogma which according to its teachings and assertions that these religious holidays dont have a right to exists.

  Who says I have to be consistent at all? It is my life and I live it as I choose. I am not out to convert the world to my viewpoint, nor am I militant about anything. I have nothing to prove to anyone, including myself.

  I like the emotions Christianity invokes and I am willing to attend and participate in church services on occasion. That church service was a Xmas Eve candlelight service outdoors. I enjoyed it as did my "family".

  I live in a country where there are Muslims and Christians. During Ramadan, I do not eat lunch in front of my Muslim friends out of respect for them and their beliefs. When a Christian asks me to say Grace, I do. Why? Out of politeness and respect for them. Do I think I will be heard? No. But I make the best prayer I can anyway. Some atheists and some Christians cannot handle that I will willingly say a prayer, but I am not accountable to them. I am not a militant person, and I see no reason not to use basic manners and show basic respect for another person's belief system. If other people cannot handle that, it is their problem, not mine.

  Your can celebrate Christmas and violate and go against the atheist credo and dogma that there is no god or you can live consistently with what you vehemently and rigorously are passionate about and that is your dogmatic claim that there is no god.

  Or I can live as I choose, irregardless of what make-believe, false, or true Gods may think. Or irregardless of what anyone else may think. I am no longer a JW where every decision I make has someone's life in the balance. I no longer have to worry about someone being stumbled due to my example. If someone is stumbled or confused because I celebrate Christmas, they have bigger problems than me.

  I would be surprised if half the people who celebrate Christmas do it because of Christ. Christmas was a pagan holiday turned Christian. Now, for most, it is a Christian holiday turned secular. If celebrating Christmas always means we are celebrating Christ, then JWs are right: those who celebrate Christmas are still celebrating pagan gods.

  Christmas is a tradition in our country. It has pagan origins, and it has Christian roots. I like that about it. And I celebrate it because it is a tradition, and because it bonds people together. I couldn't care less about whether my celebrating Christmas is consistent behaviour on my part or not. That is the beauty of being an atheist. I can do whatever the hell I want.

  Richard

  Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 18:15:10

  Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 18:26:6
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  Skeptic

  I suspect that Skeptic is more into the shopping malls of man made religion and just being plain religious than he is up holdinding his atheist dogma.

  LOL. Yeah, my lifestyle is so religious. Especially when I am doing BDSM with a lady I am not married to. After all, I DO worship women!

  Newsflash: I don't have to uphold an atheistic dogma. Or any dogma...that is the good part of not being part of any religion or cult.

  I live my life as I choose, for better or for worse. I don't care if I am consistent with my beliefs or not. I just want to have a reasonably happy life before I die. I don't see how miltant adherence to any dogma will serve that very well.

  I enjoy dabbling with illogical things that an atheist should not do. Like astrology, mystics, magic, tarot cards, psychics, Healing Touch, Reflexology, religion, etc. Do I really think these things work? Not really. I even know how they work and why people think it is "real". But I do have a emotional/religious side that enjoys them and is in awe of them too. I have long ago accepted that "illogical" side of me as being very human. And on occasion, I try to be "openminded" about those topics and give my illogical side an outlet. And I don't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of that side of me.

  Besides, nothing kills a conversation about astrology quicker than saying, "Let me show you why that is a bunch of bunk."

  Besides, not being consistent gives me a peek at the viewpoints and reasoning of others.

  Richard

  Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 19:1:43

  Edited by - Skeptic on 18 December 2002 19:6:27

  Edited by - Skeptic on 19 December 2002 0:7:15