I sure am glad you are perservering here. So many true and good things have been said.
In a sense, Melissa and I are similiar. The one missing factor that only she knows is how she truly feels about the religion. If she is just acting out on her needs and fantasies through you but still believes, you have a real problem.
IMO, the basis for any relationship is communication. If you two are having trouble communicating, about anything, now, then what about in the future.
There are a lot of variables that we here are not aware of. I.E. how long you two have been in a relationship. How serious are each of you taking it. You both have to be on the same level emotionally in this thing, or again there will be problems. Sounds to me like you have marriage in mind, or at least a long-term, comitted relationship. What is in her mind? What are her plans for the future? Are you in the long-term picture in her mind?
I think you need to very seriously sit down and discuss these things with her. If she is serious about you and you are in the long-term picture of her life, then get down to the nitty gritty and start discussing how you are going to handle the differences down the road.
I also think, you need to address the possibility of her getting disfellowshipped. Because it is a very real possibility. Find out if she has thought about that and how it will affect the two of you. How is she going to handle that? Is she ready to handle it? Does she want you in her life so much that she will invest her time and emotions in your relationship even with that possiblity hanging over her head? Will she blame you somewhere down the road for this?
The questions are endless and only the two of you can resolve them. Talk, talk, talk. And be honest. You be honest too. When you consider all of these things, tell her how you really feel about them. Of course be kind and loving when doing it. But don't hide your feelings!! It is oh so important to be honest. Because if you do end up together, it will have an affect on your life.
Good Luck Tex!!!! Hope it works out well for you!
it just got more interesting.
Reading over this thread, Texasbred, I think *Melissa* is TERRIFIED to be found out by the congregation.
She's not trying to convert you, because she can't convince herself that what the Witnesses teach is correct. (Does she go out in Field Service?)But she has all the guilt and shame that the Org. piles up on you for "having doubts." No active Witness wants to have doubts. Not done. No sir. Means there's something wrong with YOU!
Do you see the pain that fodeja and doubting sister shared above?
I think myMichelle has put it most succinctly,
"even if you can get her out of the org. can you get the org out of her?"
It's up to you how much you're willing to bear and for how long, but the fallout will be enormous, especially if she leaves.
I'm wishing for the fairy-tale ending, too, here.
I’m sure you get the gist of what is being said here. All negative about the relationship. Of course everyone here wishes you well but the combined experience of these posters should give you reason for pause.
Your girlfriend is terribly embarrassed by the whole situation. That’s why she doesn’t want you at the meetings or reading the publications. True, she does not want to confront anyone about what she is doing and go through the ordeal of a disfellowshipping but I think more importantly than that is the fact that she does not want you to ‘know the truth’ (be converted.) Once you are converted this whole scene is history. You will terminate this relationship by 1) demanding marriage to make the arrangement legitimate or 2) leave her if she does not want to get married.
The key thing here is that she is not ready for the total commitment that is required for the relationship that you are seeking. She wants the clandestine relationship that now exists but apparently nothing else for the time being.
I know that you are hesitant about confronting her with these things but eventually you will have to do so. Far better it is to do it now than after more of your life and heart are invested in the situation. Pick up the literature next time you’re there and if she seems rather disturbed by your reading it ask her if she’s embarrassed by her religion. See what she says. Ask her what she thinks about the role each must play in a marriage and how much she would be willing to give up for that. Communicate with the idea of finding out what her mind is on the matter.
I wish you the best, Tex.
-Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-
wow.... so many messages, so little time.
Last night we talked briefly. And here's where she stands (as far as I can tell):
1. smoking: I've actually seen her smoke only twice .... and that was when she had too much to drink and "bummed" one from me.
2. drinking: she drinks .... not much. As stated above, I've only seen her drunk twice.
3. fornication vs. Christmas presents: that's kinda funny, because I actually asked her exactly what 'larc' said.... and she told me that with sex, at least it could become non-sinful if we got married ... but Christmas will never be right. And I asked, "so opening gifts on Christmas is a sin?" ... she didn't reply.
4. disfellowship: she was DF'ed once before when she was "caught-in-the-act" with an ex-boyfriend/husband when she was 16. And now, if she left.... I think she's afraid that her mom might just try and take her child, but since the child's father is also an ex-JW , that would probably be difficult.
she says she hasn't "knocked on doors" in over a year ... and she regularly misses Wednesday meetings, and Sunday's when she's with me.
I'm fairly convinced that the only reason she doesn't just leave, is because she's afraid of losing all contact with her relatives.
and regarding what Prisca said: the child's only 4. He has no clue that she's having sex with her "friend" and I will only spend the night when his father takes him for the weekend. And she never smokes or drinks around him. But I do agree that she's VERY conflicted.
I also found another interesting website: http://www.macgregorministries.org
thanks again for allt he great responses....
Well, hey Terry!
We've got a lot of "Terry's" on this board - in secret. Nice to meet you - I'm a woman in South Carolina. After my divorce from first husband (xjw) - I remained a jw, but dated a "worldly guy". Imho, you're girlfriend is not much different from the average woman. We want love, and we want to do what's right. But that's not so easy when a jw and her heart is involved.
Thus, the oddity of having sex outside marriage, but wanting to raise her child strictly jw. If I'd only been drunk a couple of times in my life - well, you're girlfriend seems quite discreet to me. She's been df'd once already, she would surely be df'd again if the long term relationship comes to the elders' attention - which you're coming to the meeting would do.
So, you are her secret lover and her heart's delight. And her cause for guilt and shame. A two-edged sword. Been there. Sooner or later, she'll have to make a choice based on her love or her quilt.
But, with reading about her religion, and getting her to think about issues of the WTBTS, she might open up and realize there is no need for guilt - only of being free to love whom she chooses.
Hope it goes well for you both.
Move on....you are in for a long complicated roller coaster.