it just got more interesting.
wendy: It's interesting because she has female friends who are active JW's , yet have pre-marital sex, smoke, drink to excess, etc. Maybe it's a generational thing, or maybe it's been going on all along,just no one knew about it.... and as far as "settling" is concerned, one of MY biggest conflicts is the fact that this girl fulfills everything I look for in an individual. I never thought I'd date a single mom, but that has become irrelevant now, as I think her child is awesome. And now the ONLY problem I have is her religious beliefs.... and I can't justify throwing it all away, when she's perfect in every other sense.
And to be honest, she's NEVER thrown her religion in my face.... and has never been critical of my beliefs. In fact, I probably wouldn't even be aware of her JW-ness if it weren't for all the Watchtower and Awake magazines in her house.
now, I'm posting this just to see how many posts it takes before I stop being a "newbie" :)
now, I'm posting this just to see how many posts it takes before I stop being a "newbie" :)
I'm a nonjw, married to a jw, who I is becoming more and more inactive, and is considering fading away. Like you, I think he is perfect, well, mostly perfect in every other way but his choice of religion.
I don't know if Melissa was raised in the org, but as others have said even if you can get her out of the org, can you get the org out of her? The posters to this thread and your intro one had a lot of good points, Alan and 6of9 pretty much laid it out for you, now you have to weigh things and decide.
just for clarification.... both of her parents are JW's and she did grow up in the church.
even if you can get her out of the org, can you get the org out of her?
....I hadn't thought of that.
I can agree with a lot that has been said so far (especially the "can you get the org out of her" part...). I'm not sure if posting this has any benefit for you at all, but now I've registered just for that purpose. Don't expect good advice, just a few words from someone who's been there and done that.
I've been in what seems almost exactly the same situation. "She" behaved pretty much the same as you describe it, and I was pretty much wondering in the same way as you. She was born and raised in a somewhat dysfunctional JW family (fanatic father, anxious mother, rebellious self-destructive brother), sometimes "straying from the truth" and always feeling terribly guilty and depressed for it. But she really seemed to be "the one"; I thought I had finally found the soul mate I'd been searching for so long, a woman who seemed almost too good to be true. She was worth fighting for, so that's what I did. It was a long and very, very painful struggle for both of us, I guess. I don't even know who the enemy was in that struggle: ourselves, an oppressive religion, her family, something else or a combination of it all.
We didn't make it. As far as I know, she's fully back in the borg, married to a loyal JW and about to go with him to "where the need is greater" (read: full-time recruiting). Even though it's been a while since, I'm still not completely over it. Actually it still hurts to write this, which is why I'm keeping it rather short.
Just be careful, and - as someone else here put it - remember that "this thing" is bigger than it may seem. It's not going to be easy, but that doesn't mean you can't make it. Best of luck to you, I really mean it.
f. (europe-bred :-))
I'm not going to repeat any of the very good thoughts above. And, I, took hope you 'stick around' - for our englightenment as well as yours.
Frankly, most JW women would literally JuMp, JuMp, JuMp at the opportunity to bring someone such as yourself into the
organization. So, that leaves me wondering, also, why?? she hasn't pushed this, since you expressed a willingness to attend meetings.
I think that you aware that if her congregational elders learned of her
'smoking' and the fact that you two have a sexual relationship, she would be disfellowshipped and 'shunned totally' by all - likely even by her own parents!!! As others' have commented on, this makes me question that perhaps she doesn't want you to go to the Kingdom Hall with her, on the chance that the 'critical-eyed' elders would pick-up on your feelings for her.
Put her in the 'spotlight' as such, and then actually 'grill' her about your relationship...and believe me, they would show no mercy. (If you haven't done so, please read JT's "Thong" thread.)
I like Mommy's advice - it would seem that she has doubts on some level - check out some of the recommended sites like Freemind and consider sharing them with her. Start slowly, perhaps with one topic, and see how she responds.
I will repeat some above advice - your life will be dramatically altered if you should marry this woman and she remains adament about rearing her child, and probably any you two might have together, as active JW's. If you had a son or daughter by her, would you want them to miss out on birthday celebrations, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, sports in school, 4th of July parades.....and the list goes on.....?
And think of this potential happening - even if you raised 'your' child as you see fit and she doesn't give you any flack re doing so - what about the child she already has - what a horrible 'conlict' it would cause between siblings. One child so restricted - the other an active participant in normal childhood activities, holidays, etc. Truly, Tex, IMO you must 'force' the issues with her - it's unfair to both of you to let this situation continue as it has.
ok if she was all that strict of a jw, she would not be dating you, a non jw. To me it seems she is sending a mixed signal?
As the others have said, "Melissa" has some very large issues to resolve, and for your own well-being, as well as for herself, she needs to resolve them ASAP.
In the eyes of the Witnesses, "Melissa" is a dead do-do. Because she has been fornicating and smoking and drinking on a regular basis, and has been keeping it a secret from them, she is "unrepentant" of her sins (in their eyes) so she would be disfellowshipped (ex-communicated) quicker thatn you could blink! So the minute "Melissa"'s double life comes to light, the world that she has known since birth will crumble around her.
So Melissa does all these things, living two lives. And then she says she wants to bring up her kid as a strict JW. Yeah right! How stupid does she think her kid is? Already he would be observing her behaviour. And if she tries to teach him different, while living another way of life, what does she expect him to do?? Kids may be naive, but they ain't dumb. "Melissa" is really dumb if she thinks she can deceive him.
Plus she's deceiving all her friends, her own family. If she's capable of being so two-faced, how do you know she won't try to pull something over you too, sometime in years to come, texasbred?
Why can't she be honest with herself, let alone with her nearest and dearest? She seems to be living in complete denial of who she is and what she is really doing.
I really feel sorry for her. She is one mixed up kid who needs to grow up emotionally.
Don't you find it peculiar that a woman who smokes, gets drunk and fornicates, isn't willing to open Christmas presents? Is there something wrong with this picture?
IMHO, She loves you, loves her kid, and loves her parents.
This spells B-I-G C-O-N-F-L-I-C-T, Texasbred.
As one who has survived a "mixed" marriage with all the conflict that the holidays, etc., bring, I would urge you to think hard & long on what 6of9, AlanF and Prisca have said.
I had NO family in the organization, but, having been familiar with the Witnesses as a youth, wanted to keep my children from dying at Armageddon (even though I was prepared to bite the bullet for myself).
This is likely Melissa's position, too. For a while there, she didn't have to take responsibility for her child being "saved." Only one believer-parent is a necessity. But now, with the ex- being also an ex-JW, she's on the spot. She MUST bring her child up in the faith so that her child, for whom she wants the best, will SURVIVE.
This is an extremely hard emotional PULL on her psyche, because she BELIEVES it. She believes that her child's only chance is HER towing the Witness line, even though she has serious doubts herself that she is submerging.
It's extremely difficult for a non-Witness to understand. I applaud that you're more than willing. You really seem to love this woman, Texas.
But Prisca is right in that she is totally TOAST the minute her relationship with you is discovered. Trust me, she does NOT want you at the meetings. Because she perhaps has enough integrity and/or indoctrination that should the elders ASK, she will not be able to lie to them. And then the shunning would begin and she would lose her parents and her friends (yes, even, likely, the ones who are also running wild -- THEY would have to keep up appearances).
You do not mention if Melissa has any siblings? Perhaps it was in a previous post? But if she's her parents only child, she may not be able to inflict upon them the horror and disappointment of losing THEIR daughter to Armageddon. And she can feel this pain more easily now that she's a parent, too.
You may have your best chance at happiness by just bailing, Texasbred.
I'm real sorry about that.