by Debz 40 Replies latest jw friends
I'm not a JW so it'd be real difficult to "judge" like them. But I couldn't help notice this statement...
I also have a great deal of respect for those who try MLM only to fail, but realize that it wasn't for them, or know that they didn't aquire the skills to succeed.
Anybody notice anything funny about this statement?
Okay, I can't resist...
But anyone who bashes MLM just because they failed, or they know someone who failed, or because they don't have the knowledge to make a fair judgment..............is absolutely ridiculous.
Hmmmm...
Now for a quick quiz:
If an MLM scheme fails to make you money, whose fault is it?
a) yours
b) still yours
c) it's possible a MLM could provide a faulty product on a shaky premise, but let's be honest, it's still your fault
When is it okay to "bash" a MLM?
a) never. not even when you fail to earn money at it.
b) never. not even when someone you know fails to make money at it.
c) never. you did not acquire the skills, nor have the knowledge to justify "bashing" an MLM.
I just thought it interesting subject.........My parents no longer talk `spiritual` matters with me and they have`nt for over 20yrs..BUT you guessed it ..any MLM that they happen to be currently attached to gets posted to me with promises of great wealth and health.....recently Mannatech....when I asked my Mum why the JW Doctor who was `selling` it to patients got `struck off`....I was met with a matter of fact reply that he was really interested in his patients welfare. It seems that this product is the wonder product of the century and can cure all ills...I have grave concern that JW`s with an illness (ie my father - who has diabeties) are taking the `natural` alternative to prescribed medication only on the basis that its the MLM product of the moment!!!!
First, people get offended when "others make money from others". For God's sake.... what the hell do you think happens when you go to work?? Is not someone paying someone for some service or product? That is business! For those who have their own businesses like myself, you understand that. If that did not take place somehow, in some way shape or form, then businesses would not be.
It's not the making money from selling product that is the problem with MLM. Some MLMs are different from others, but for most of them, it is the building of the pyramid that earns money. You make money by recruiting and getting residuals. But no matter how great a product is, it only has x percentage of market penetration. Everyone you recruit below you has less opportunity to find customers and sell to them than you do.
So you get these guys who have opened up a region or are very near the top of a pyramid who got in when market potential was great who are making the 6 figure/month salaries. And they're there at the meetings saying you can do it too. But the simple facts are that every person who joins has less opportunity than the guy above him (if they're in the same area). The more people who join, the better for the top of the pyramid, but the worse for the guys at the bottom. It's basic math. The numerator (total sales potential) gets divided by a bigger and bigger denominator (number of salespeople). Each one makes less.
Then you throw in monthly quotas, and other "incentives" where these lowly people on the bottom end up buying extra products themselves just go meet some requirement or stay active. Buying things they don't need and are marked up 3 times as high as you can find elsewhere so that the upline can get its cut. Sure the guys at the bottom can make money by busting their asses, but barring all that work, the only way to make money is having people working for you. Logic says that everyone can't have people working for them. So those people have to bust ass or lose money.
For these reasons, MLM is is often preying off the guys at the bottom of the pyramid. That's unethical.
The basics of MLM are similar. Though some companies pay differently and have different products. Some are better than others and some manage to make money without hurting others too much. With some, even the guys at the bottom can make money without trying too hard.
Many MLMs are very bad news though. Salespeople lie about their income to recruit. People buy product to meet goals and go in debt buying crap they don't need. People are dishonest about possibilities with friends to recruit them. People are sold more training as a fix for why they aren't making money (training which mostly consists of "believe in this MLM"). Sometimes friendships are based soley on people being part of an MLM. Sometimes families and friends are broken up when people feel like they've been suckered by the ones they trusted. In some ways, there are MLMs that are every bit as much of a cult as some religions.
There may be some good ones, but I haven't seen any without a catch.
Are JWs unique to MLM? I don't think so. I've heard of other religions getting involved in it. Churches being divided over it. The get-rich-quick mentality promoted by it can lure anyone.
I have a friend who seems to continually go for every MLM and get-rich-quick scheme he can find and never learns. He is more selective about MLMs now, being more selective about choosing products he believes in. To date, I believe he has lost much more money in it than he has made. Recently he was in Big Planet with their long-distance and after using their service for several months (though cheaper services were available), I asked him how much he made. I think he made less than 20 bucks in 6 months, but spent probably 10 times that much buying from them. Don't order that Rolls-Royce yet.
He always blames himself. Didn't put in enough time, didn't try hard enough, need more training, etc. His new one Cyberwize is getting a lot more of his attention. He just got about a $500 check for signing up his siblings in a different state. If he actually opens up new territory, this one might work for him. But by comparison to that $500 check, I estimate he's spent over $1000 paying for various membership packages, not to mention training. Then there was a conference in Vegas. He's contracting. He's worried about being renewed. Taking time off means he both loses pay and potentially sends a bad message to his employer. And then there's the expense of the trip. So he's wondering whether this will be so big he won't need to renew. His MLM mentor told him, get this: "If you don't go, I can guarantee you WILL need to find a new contract when this one expires". Does anybody see the bass-ackwards logic in that statement? That was the clincher for him. Without promising a thing if he DID go, she only predicted an outcome which was almost 100% guaranteed no matter what he did, if he didn't go. He went and still hasn't made any descent money and still has to worry about renewal. Anyway, he's probably a couple grand or more into this. Not to mention the $200-$300/month vitamin habit he now has. From a company that sells a growth hormone stimulator made from 191 amino acids. Excuse me? Did they also invent some 170 new amino acids too?
That's another thing about MLMs, lies. Sure they've been around for years. So has 3-card monty.
So what else about this friend? He used to be a JW too and I think was involved in MLM at that time. Since then, he's quit the JWs after being disfellowshipped and found a new religion, The Way Ministries.
He is a very intelligent guy, but always seems to think there is some conspiracy afoot to keep him down. That there's always some secret knowledge he can atain to combat these forces out to get him, and by using this knowledge, his life will be richer. Financially for him, MLMs hold some secret to untold wealth that he's going to tap into - eventually. Religiously, he found a religion that also has a lot of gee-whiz type things. Secrets that nobody else has figured out. It's like a cross between JWs and pentecostals. No trinity, but speaking in tongues and healing. They have identified x-number of "devil spirits" acting against people, each with their own specific specialities. They have pinpointed Jesus's birth to within something like 45 minutes (because astrology was once given to us by God and was used by God's people). (reminds me of predicting 1914)
For him, I think, he has to feel like he has that secret knowledge that the world doesn't know about. Not too different from JWs in a way.
Despite our common distaste for all the MLMs our friend gets into, my wife just got into 2 of them. Avon was one. It went great at first when she started and everybody gave her a sympathy order or 2. Then she got stuck with product. Each month, Avon would bill you for a bunch of their booklets, whether you wanted/needed them or not. Eventually, she was paying more for catalogs than she was making and quit.
She's doing another one where she does shows in-home. Her actual shows weren't quite as good as those she was told about or taken along on (taken to shows in rich neighborhoods, where sales are naturally higher). Now that she's gone through all the friends and family that she can convince to have a show, she's high-and-dry with nothing on the horizon.
There are no real get-rich-quick schemes. They're either scams or they work with lots of your own hard work.
Detective:
My fault, in my earlier post that you so much enjoyed picking apart, I forgot to mention that I was speaking of legit MLM opportunities. Anyone who does a littlle "detective" work, before jumping into something, should be able to find a good honest opportunity.
When I said :
I also have a great deal of respect for those who try MLM only to fail, but realize that it wasn't for them, or know that they didn't aquire the skills to succeed.
I meant, that I respect someone who has tried a legit MLM, and failed at it, but can see past their own ego and realize that they didn't have what it takes. Instead of going on to blame everyone and every thing else for their failure, like so many people love to do. Sure, sometimes a person's failure is out of their control. But a majority of the time it is their fault. There are many reasons people can, and will fail at MLM.
1. The person gets in with a false understanding of what it takes to become successful. Sure, the people they are dealing with can promise "easy money" or "overnight riches." And those are the people that one should stay away from. If you buy too much in to these promises, you deserve to fail. Success requires hard work, I don't care which industry you are in. Many people will give up too soon, or get into a ton of debt investing in all the wrong things to grow their business. Live and learn. Some people will never make it no matter how hard they try. They could spend thousands of dollars on leads, and advertising.....but if they don't have the communication or people skills, they won't get very far. Or perhaps they get people in just fine, and sell product just fine.......but don't know how to create duplication, and suddenly it all falls apart, because they weren't good trainers or promoters.
2. Some good, honest, legit MLM's will go out of business. Even if you do make a good choice, sometimes it just isn't going to work. This happens in every industry as well, not just MLM. WorldCom, Enron, United Airlines, etc. Nothing is foolproof..........ever!
3. Of course there are many other reasons one could fail, but most of them are trivial, and can be avoided before ever treading on MLM grounds..
Bottom line: Investigate, poke, prod, question, research, evaluate, and make smart, well-informed decisions. After all, it is YOUR business, and you will be responsible for your future in that business.
---------------------------"Job 'security' is defined by the insecure"-------------------------------------
Work?? You bet! Mrs Ozzie and I were involved in the direct selling field some years ago. No, not Amway! but with a 'kinder' form of pyramidism!!
Anyway, we enjoyed the meetings. The weekly meetings were so much like the Service Meeting! Same pitch, same motivation, etc. Anyway, we progressed to quite a senior level in the organisation, having quite a team at several levels "beneath" us. Felt good for a while. Interestingly, many of our 'consultants' were Dubs.
Funnily enough, it wasn't the money that started us getting involved. We actually believd in the product! (The perfect consultants!!)
Why did we become 'fadeways' from it? Well, it was a bout of ill health, and , well, Mrs Ozzie felt she wanted to continue with her own (by now) successful business. It was I who was encouraging the direct selling thing.
We still have a fair bit of product in our cupboards.
Hard work it surely was, but then all small business (SME) is, isn't it?
Cheers, Ozzie
Edited by - ozziepost on 11 December 2002 6:59:14
jws made some very good points................but as damned pointed out, it doesn't apply to legit MLM companies.
I have never been involved in one that requires you to buy their marketing tools. That would raise a red flag for me. I've heard of ones who require a monthly minimum or you are deleted, from their books, but I haven't been in one of those either.
The one I am in requires you buy $100 worth of products a month, on your number, to get your commission check. I sell that much every day from my web site, on my number.
He just got about a $500 check for signing up his siblings in a different state
If a company gives you a commission for recruiting, that is very illegal in the U.S., and they should be reported to the FTC. That is a myth I've heard many times, but in my companies, you get nothing for sponsoring someone. If they buy products, of course you do, just like the salesman who sells you your car, gets a commission, and his supervisors get a cut of what he makes. That's the way corporations work.
So you get these guys who have opened up a region or are very near the top of a pyramid who got in when market potential was great who are making the 6 figure/month salaries. And they're there at the meetings saying you can do it too. But the simple facts are that every person who joins has less opportunity than the guy above him (if they're in the same area). The more people who join, the better for the top of the pyramid, but the worse for the guys at the bottom. It's basic math. The numerator (total sales potential) gets divided by a bigger and bigger denominator (number of salespeople). Each one makes less.
Another myth. You don't just sell and recruit to people in your area. I have people in my downline all over the world, and they have downlines, etc. I live in Washington State, but most of my sales are from Japan, Korea, California and Florida. For some reason that is just where my orders come from. But I have a file for every state, and every Asian country, including Kuwait. It all depends on what you want, and how much you are willing to work.
Everyone has made some good points here, and the key is finding a good company with a good reputation with high quality, consumable, replaceable products.
If a company gives you a commission for recruiting, that is very illegal in the U.S., and they should be reported to the FTC. That is a myth I've heard many times, but in my companies, you get nothing for sponsoring someone. If they buy products, of course you do, just like the salesman who sells you your car, gets a commission, and his supervisors get a cut of what he makes. That's the way corporations work.
I can't personally speak to exactly what the check was for. Possibly as part of their startup, they bought products that earned him commissions. His MLM has some complicated scheme where he has 2 downlines where money is held-up on one downline until activity on the other releases it. Possibly signup simply released some of that money he says is frozen in his other downline. In most other respects, Cyberwize seems legit and big enough that if it were operating illegally it would have been fined by now. So I would doubt anything illegal is happening, but I could be wrong. The only thing I know was absolutely bogus was the product advertised as having 191 amino acids. But maybe that's the info they got from the manufacturer.
The other thing I keep thinking with MLM is WHY MLM? My friend seems lured by long-distance MLMs and vitamin supplements. If he's all fired up about selling supplements, why not start his own business instead of being a salesguy for somebody else's. Why not order from a wholesaler or manufacturer and sell them to everyone he can? He could probably find the same supplements, even if under a different name. He wouldn't get involved in huge prices designed to pay an upline and could reduce the retail price (and thus sell more product too). And he doesn't have to worry about selling x-amount of product to make a commission.
The reason, I believe, is that it is too much like a regular business and then he realizes the work involved to make a go of it. That doesn't have a pitch man with it telling him how rich he can become by doing this in his spare time. Either method is work. And I may be wrong, but if you're putting that much work into it, you may just be better off owning your own business instead of being a salesperson cog in the MLM machine.
OK forget MLM, you've all convinced me. I am in IT and can use computers, build databases and so on but cant get part time work I can do as and when I please on my PC. I need help to find a niche I can work on in addition to my normal job without starting a whole business. Any suggestions?
OK forget MLM, you've all convinced me. I am in IT and can use computers, build databases and so on but cant get part time work I can do as and when I please on my PC. I need help to find a niche I can work on in addition to my normal job without starting a whole business. Any suggestions?
My wife's trying to learn medical transcription. Basically you can get audio files e-mailed to you, you transcribe them and e-mail back the results. She has somebody lined up that she can take overflow work from on an as-available basis. I'm told there's plenty of work out there and the work, while it needs to get done, can be done any time of the day. Not sure of the exact pay, but I hear it is high. Her uncle works at a Mercedes dealership and has a regular customer who is single and all she does is medical transcription.
And if learning medical terms aint your thing, I think the same concept is available in a legal transcription version.
Right now, it's basically working on typing speed for her. It's not really a requirement. You accept as much work as you can do. If you type slow, you just accept less work. But, to get certified, you do need fast typing skills.
She also needed to buy some special equipment. Basically it's a foot pedal that plugs into the serial port. Apparently they have some special playback software that checks the serial port for start/stop/backup signals and plays back the audio accordingly. Her training kit cost her around $300, but they can cost a lot more.
Just a thought...
