Venting @*$& (II)

by Tashawaa 23 Replies latest jw friends

jgnat

I wholeheartedly agree with Iwasyoungonce.
I disagree with the Email because it says to me that God abandoned us. I say bull to that. I have not lost my faith in him nor him in me. Period. (On that) Iwasyoungonce

Five Shadows, I take exception to your reasoning.
What have you done to prevent this 911 from occurring, except posing questions and demanding to put God on trial when in actuality God has already made it clear what we ought to do in order to prevent this? Five Shadows
I disagree with this chain-mail. Did God ever guarantee no trouble when we serve him faithfully? Never! Would the US of A be under a magic bubble of protection if it would just be more faithful to God? I hope that magic bubble is never put to the test. Would those zealots have changed their mind before hitting the twin towers, if only America had been more moral? I seriously doubt that. Or perhaps the moral right believes that the twin towers to capitalism would never have been built if the nation had only worshipped God aright. The Muslim zealots would have agreed with that. Jesus warned us that a home could always be overrun if the bully is stronger than the man at the door. David was a man after Gods own heart, yet was nearly killed for his zealousness by his own king. David lived because he had enough street smarts to run in to the desert instead of waiting on Jehovah.
I believe bullies must be answered with force, or we risk being overrun. As a former battered wife, I am acutely aware of the misuse of pacifist, forgiveness doctrine that would have the devout and innocent lay down and take abuse while they wait for deliverance.
I AM GLAD my ancestors signed up to fight in World War II. I believe many more innocents would have died had not those heroes volunteered to fight a just war. I believe God supports men who fight the bullies to protect us. These men, along with the heroes who rescued who they could from the twin tower disaster, are our real magic bubble of protection.
FiveShadows
Heathen I apologize for not responding..your post was small and i accidently

over looked it. I agree with the email that God is not to blame but I am

against Religion for it is the disgusting thing causing desolation standing

in a holy place.

Iwasyoungonce may you have peace You stated:

I disagree with the Email because it says to me that God abandoned us

I am sorry that you have misunderstood what the 'root' of the email was.

God has not 'abandoned' us ...if i recall the statement made was:

"I believe He has calmly backed out"

This does not imply that he abandoned us, for the abandonment would be to

desert entirely and to give up entirely. God has not done this, infact

He waits patiently for those that wish to seek Him. As stated in Amos 3:7,8

that He does warn EVERYONE ahead of time. If someone wishes to do something

that is not'good' but rather 'bad' they are warned...but if they ignor the

message repeatedly and continue to ignor...even to the point in which they

do that which is 'bad' they reap what they sow yes?
This was my point to the "Six Flags" thing. Relgiondum has for to

long taught that "this" is what God is and this is what you must do.

Worship the "Church." I reject that. And, I reject that by doing that

I reject God or that anyone is abandoned for doing so.

Sadly this is what religion teaches and as i've stated in a post earlier to Heathen religion is not Gods but the advesary. but do not let religion stumble you and reject God! Clearly he has not abandonded us. Keep in mind 2 peter 3:9 "...but He is patient with you because he does not desire anyto be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance."
Tashawaa May you have peace that you wish to attain! May i respond? Thank you!
I'm assuming then, that all those that allow the Lord into their lives are safe from murderers and mental illnesses, depression, etc. that may cause one to take their own life.?!?
No dear! never assume. For this is how religion began with assumptions of prideful men! As i said everyone is warned of the consequences but if they refuse to listen what else is He to do? It is up to the person himself (servent of God or not) to decide whether or not he should do the act or not, and if he fails to test out the spirit and does it regardless of what God has said even if he knows that God has spoken this as being 'wrong' who else is to blame but the person themselves?
Speaking of which, what I do in private is non of anyone's business as long as I do my job.
I agree.
Our 'violent' tv programs are all 'make-believe' should we go back to the good ole' days of Roman Gladiators, watching criminals hung and heathens burned (by the christians), jousting, etc.??
It is up to the person to deicde whether or not they should watch a specific show or movie. I enjoy movies and i think their good entertainment, just as long as it doesn't make me do anything. IF it does...i should have not watched it and i am to blame. Once again the 'christians' of the roman gladiators that hung people ...fail to test out the spirit and if they kill repeatedly after Jah has told them not to do so and turn their backs on what Jah has said ...are they really christians?
the middle-east has the most "moral" people in the world... they "stone" adulteresses (not men), cut off their hands for stealing, beat their children, keep their wives in subjection, ban all immoral TV, etc.
I understand what you are saying and agree that it is not right. They do what they do because they do not test out the inspired expression. They take the law and live by it. Those that live by the law are judged by the law ...those that live by the ransom are saved by it. The purpose of the law was not to kill people...it was to show what is 'right' from 'wrong.' if someone should steal the CONSEQUENCE was to give back more then that which he stole. Remember God WARNS us ahead of time what the consequences are. Because remember ' we are all deserving of Death' (Romans 3:10,11) but we are given undeserved kindness and life! In addition to show us from ' right ' from 'wrong' it also was to show us LOVE. Remember 'eye for an eye tooth for a tooth?' Those were the consequences of sheding innocent blood. But should the person be TRUELY repentant! LOVE conquers all! That is why Romans 13:10 speaks of this: "Love does not work evil to one's neighbor' therefore love is the law's fulfillment" Remember this is what the purpose of the law was in addition to show them from 'right and wrong.'
Once again earthling men failed to test out the spirit to understand TRUTH of the matter and it is one's fault that reap what they sow, Not Gods. Understand though, even though earthling men have done this and shed much innocent blood do not let this stumble you. For Jah himself has and will carry out His Word. Remember, those that live by the law are judged by the law, those that live by the ransom are saved by it. (Galatians 3:10) If we understand that we are deserving of death and repent and the law is fulfilled and ask for mercy for what we have done and practice love to all how much more PEACE would you recieve? This builds a relationship with Truth (Christ) that reveals love (God) to you, and by doing this does this not show to God that you seek Him out? Do not let the world's wrong doings turn your back on God and their stupidity to let you sin with your lips against the Holy one of Israel.
Last, but not least, the law was to show mercy that is extended upon us. "For the one that does not practice mercy will have his judgment without mercy. Mercy exults triumphantly over Judgement" (James 2:13) We all have sinned and sin but we must confess our sins and work on them to attain a level of peace that which we may recieve only from Love (God). God has not abandonded anyone but waits patiently for all to attain repentence.
Let he that has a listening ear, hear what the spirit of Truth is saying (Mt 13:43)~FS
p.s. I apologize for the post looking weird if it does. I had a lot of problems and took forever to re-edit the post so it could fit the screen properly.
Edited by - FiveShadows on 5 November 2002 18:42:22
Edited by - FiveShadows on 5 November 2002 22:24:42
FiveShadows

jgnat
May you recieve the comfort from Jah of Armies and Jah-Eshua (Gods tool for comforter)
Indeed if may respond to you ... For He speaks by saying that He has heard your cries of agony and asks for you to seek Him out and stop 'running'. For He will comfort you and asks you to practice love, mercy and Truth in your heart and to all. He also says that a 'way' was provided yet you did not accept. ~FS
Iwasyoungonce

5 d's Thanks. I do have the inner peace that you speak of. And I hope you find the same. The only thing that we are talking about here is reward and punishment.
You feel that because of ungodly standards or the outright rejection of faith (in God) the horror of 9/11 was allowed. As if a "vail of protection was lifted." That to me is abandonment in time of need. The other side is "if" faith was done as according you; Either your standard or someone other than mine (as that is the only one whom I have authority over) then maybe this could have been avoided.
The sad truth is the only ones that could have positivly stopped this tragity were the ones that inflicted it. They believed that God commanded, demanded them to do this act. Which of course was not true. But, they believed in a man made "paradise" that will be created by a river of blood. And, that's the way they and the the others like them will be because, it is what they choose. Remember they brought this to us not the other way around. I have already had 100's of discussions about whom is the greater inflictor of terror. That's not my point. These men brought this to us. God had nothing to do with it. Nor did Satan. The men who trained and prepared and then took these planes and flew them into the buildings they did it. Other men financed and supplied the know how. All done by men. Nothing supernatural about it. I can't believe that some people can not just grow some balls and admit this is our own SNAFU. And grow up.
And in Luke 15 God ran to at the same time the son was comming back. He Ran. I do not believe that what ever I do I will be abandoned not by me and not by him. (Or that God will take 5) Say what you will you will not shake that from me. May you one day have that kind of peace and security "5 Shadows"
To the solders that protect me from those who would kill me given the chance I simply say a heart felt "Thank YOU!" For those who are offended by that or whom think that I am ungodly...Well to bad.
Bendrr

I agree with what was said. I don't agree with the way the Christian Right would deal with society's ills. You can't legislate morality. The goals of the Grahams and other Christian Righters aside, they do make some very valid points.
Madeleine Murray O'Hare complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. And we said OK. Then Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children . And we said OK. Then someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And we said OK. Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said OK. Then some wise school board member said, let's give our sons all the condoms they want so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said OK. Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. And then someone else published pictures of nude children and then further again by making them available on the Internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to free speech. Then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. Let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
When someone stands up and encourages traditional values these days they are immediately villified as Nazi, Fascist, intolerant, racist, bigot, hate-monger, close-minded, etc.
The intolerance is from the other side. The intolerant ones are those who tell parents and schools not to teach abstinence to their kids. The intolerant ones are the ones who want to put a titty bar next to the Babtist Church just to affirm their right to free speech. The intolerance is just as much on the liberal left as it is on the Christian right, and the liberal left is doing a lot more harm than good these days.
Mike.
FiveShadows
You (Iwasyoungonce) said:
5 d's Thanks. I do have the inner peace that you speak of. And I hope you find the same. The only thing that we are talking about here is reward and punishment.
Thank you
However the 'root' of the post that which we all are talking about was the email:
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?"
And the answer to the root was calmly backing out, not Abandonment.
You feel that because of ungodly standards or the outright rejection of faith (in God) the horror of 9/11 was allowed. As if a "vail of protection was lifted."
No actually it was 'warned...God backs off, then reap what you sow.' Stated here:
If someone wishes to do something that is not'good' but rather 'bad' they are warned...but if they ignor the
message repeatedly and continue to ignor...even to the point in which they do that which is 'bad' they reap what they sow yes?
And:
"This does not imply that he abandoned us, for the abandonment would be to
desert entirely and to give up entirely"
An example of this can be found in Genesis 2:16,17
you said:
That to me is abandonment in time of need.
If God warns you ahead of time the consequences of your actions that you wish to do and allows you to sin and all sin is just flat out sin, (even when you hurt others) and these men that did this were obviously aware of the consequences that they will die and (it's a suicide mission) their judgement to shed innocent blood and He has already told everyone 'if you live by the law, you're judged by the law,' and 'don't shed innocent blood' is it God's fault that the terrorist agreed to those terms outlined ahead of time before this was done?
You said:
The sad truth is the only ones that could have positivly stopped this tragity were the ones that inflicted it.
This is true stated here:
It is up to the person himself (servent of God or not) to decide whether or not he should do the act or not, and if he fails to test out the spirit and does it regardless of what God has said even if he knows that God has spoken this as being 'wrong' who else is to blame but the person themselves?
Even the people on the plane, that could've stopped this.
You said:
They believed that God commanded, demanded them to do this act. Which of course was not true. But, they believed in a man made "paradise" that will be created by a river of blood. And, that's the way they and the the others like them will be because, it is what they choose.
Yes sad isn't it? you said:
Remember they brought this to us not the other way around.
If you really want to get to the very core of the problem (Not post, the post's core was 'how could God allow this to happen') please read my response here:
'Since in the beginning there was only Love (God) and Hate (death) and we are told to be like love and to practice love and we refuse and ignor to do so...and we continue to put God out of our lives and He has granted our wishes and only those that do His will does he get invovled with because all others have pushed him out how can we sit back and blame him whenif ALL (keyword) would just LISTEN and obey His commandments would our peace be like the sea?
Perhaps this needs to be more clear but my point was in the beginning we sinned and brought this upon ourselves. If we did not sin none of this would have happened. AND God is not to blame.
That's not my point. These men brought this to us. God had nothing to do with it. Nor did Satan.
Actually we brought this upon ourselves. and God has nothing to do with this yes. For we were hewed out (Isaiah 51:1) of the rock (Christ: 1 Corinthians 10:4) As adam's spirit and ours were 'one' before (1 corinthians 15:22). We including adam were created through Christ being part of (or in union with) 'The rock' and yet we as well as Adam sinned knowing that we would die and reap what we sow.
You said:
I can't believe that some people can not just grow some balls and admit this is our own SNAFU. And grow up.
Yes as you've stated above...it is our own chaos as a result of reaping what we sow. You said:
And in Luke 15 God ran to at the same time the son was comming back. He Ran. I do not believe that what ever I do I will be abandoned not by me and not by him. (Or that God will take 5)
Yes God helped right? Just like he gives us divine warning ahead of time about what we're going to be doing from the beginning right? Just like he sent His son to help us OUT of this mess that we're reaping right?
you said:
Say what you will you will not shake that from me. May you one day have that kind of peace and security "5 Shadows"
Ok um...If i may ask Where is our disagreement? I ask this because i do not see it...you agree that God is not at fault ...i agree. you said :
I can't believe that some people can not just grow some balls and admit this is our own SNAFU. And grow up.
I agree.
For those who are offended by that or whom think that I am ungodly...Well to bad.
sweetie i never said your ungodly (if you were implying this)...I am a good for nothing servent. I try very hard to serve others and do the best i can. For a while i was nto doing this and recieved discipline for it...I have learned my lesson and am trying now to serve others. If anything I am YOUR servent. And it is by means of undeserved kindness, love, mercy and life that i exist to serve you.
I bid EVERYONE peace and pray for the spirit of Jah and Jah-Eshua to be upon them. ~FS
Edited by - FiveShadows on 5 November 2002 21:53:12
Iwasyoungonce

5 d's,
Last post.
To say: I think we agree on main topics. Your boxes are a little confusing as to who said what so I say again we seem to agree on main lines I.e. "Don't blame God."
But, I also don't blame "mankind." If blame is to be assigned it's falls on the one's who did it. I do not blame Government or anyone or anything accept those who did the act and those that taught and helped them to hate and kill.
And my last sentence of my last post was 100% general and not to you. Sorry I did not specify. I mean no barbs to you. I enjoyed the coversation.
Peace,
Jay
FiveShadows

Praise Jah! :) sorry so confusing i tried hard to clear it..and apologize if there was misunderstanding. but anyhow...how about them dodgers? eh? ~FS
heathen

fiveshadows - I hate the dodgers. I just think the whole statement is just a religious right move to make Americans feel like God is punishing the USA like he was prone to do with ancient Isreal .When you read the bible it's evident that God is not backing any of the nations in the world today.911 had to do with a bunch of radical religionists who feel that God was backing their moves.Pat robertson is prone to say these kind of things as well .I never let this kind of reasoning influence my opinions .
jgnat

The fellow who was born blind. Whose sin was it? His parents or his own?
FiveShadows. Who gave you sight in to my heart? Or Jehovah's? I know I am His. He rescued me a long time ago.

Venting @*$& (II)

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