Whether the three aforementioned men are guilty or not, I think there are two other factors that create serious problems for women and children. The religion is patriarchial and women and children are considered a man's property. For evil men, this leads to the exploitation of said property. Also, the religion is a theocracy, which is another word for an autocracy. In such a system, the rights of those not part of the rulership have no rights to challenge injustice. It add to this is the natural desire of the "in group", ie, men, to protect themselves from the accusors. All brotherhoods do this.
Pedophilia and the FDS
by LoneWolf 33 Replies latest watchtower scandals
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herk
Larc,
What, then, do we do? Do we segregate all men from women and children? The vast majority of all societies in this world are patriarchal. Do we accuse all men of being pedophiles simply because some men are? It seems you are saying all JW men are pedophiles, so no harm is done in accusing three GB men of being so. Or, you are saying a sufficient number of them are pedophiles, and that validates a charge against all of them.
I fail to see your point. The fact remains that in all just societies, all persons are considered innocent until proven guilty. It seems to me that you feel, instead, that persons are guilty merely because someone says they are, even without presenting any evidence.
Do I understand you correctly?
Herk
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donkey
Accusations are easy to come by.
Proof is a different matter altogether.
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Berean
All I have seen here are a lot of accusations thrown out without any proof. Then statements alluding to all the previous accusations and that in effect say, "where there is smoke there is fire."
LoneWolf says, "
As you may know, there are ones at the top of the Organization that stand accused of pedophilia, etc. As I remember, both Greenlees and Chitty have been exposed as such".
I dont "know" any of this, where are the facts please.
"
.... looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck." Dia you sound just like Nancee/Nickpark. Provide substantial backing for your stand please.
It is easy to make empty accusations on a persons character . . . it is another to provide substantial proof.
Berean
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waiting
First of all, a person who is a pedophile may never touch an actual child. He/she has pedophilia, which is
"an abnormal condition in which an adult has a sexual desire for children." (Webster's)
If the pedophile acts out his/her sexual desire for children - then they become child molesters.
A pedophile is not the same thing as a child molester. A pedophile may be strongly into child porno, etc., and never touch an actual child.
As for accusations? They are just that. Sad to say - in many cases of child molestation & rapes of all kinds...particularily after 1/2/3/4 decades, it becomes he said/she said. Doesn't mean it didn't happen....means it can't be proven to have happened.
A man can be driven, egocentric, Godlike in his own arena - and still not a child molester - especially if he's not a basic pedophile in the first place. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand, at least from the literature I've read. He could....but then so can any other human. I would think your local Boy Scout Leader would be more worthy of speculation about child abuse.
Who knows? It's all just speculation at this point.
waiting
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larc
herk, I have no idea how you reached your conclusions. I said that the witness culture is a system that is conducive to the creation of the presence of phedophiles. I said nothing about the number who actually are pedophiles. Go back and please read again, especially where I used the word "evil men." If you have further questions, please post again.
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larc
herk, I have a few minutes before I leave for a basketball game with my son, so I thought I would add these comments. You pointed out that all societies are patriarcal. Yes, and this history of the human race is litered with the tormented bodies of woemen and children. It is only in recent times that man's domination has been counter balanced by a by codefied set of laws and a justice system to control those men that need to be controlled (not all men by any means) Unfortunately, the WT is way behind mainstream society in this regard.
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herk
Larc,
Why do you feel the need to put down your readers? Could it possibly be the error was on your end? There was a reason why I asked, "Do I understand you correctly?"
The discussion was on whether we ought to accuse people, even members of the GB, of crimes for which we have no evidence. It seemed to me you were trying to make the case that we should. Why else did you choose to participate?
Why else would you mention "other factors" than those already presented? What could you possibly have meant by "serious problems for women and children"?
In this context you mentioned that "women and children are considered a man's property." Then you mentioned "evil men," and we can only assume that you meant evil men among the JWs who, according to your view, engage in the "exploitation of said property." You added, "Also, the religion is a theocracy ... autocracy ... a system" where some have "no rights to challenge justice." And you made it clear that what really bugs you is that the "in group" in the organization are "men" - a 'brotherhood,' etc. The implication is that all men in the organization are as evil as the men you envision as running things.
I'm not sympathetic to the type of tyranny that exists within the JW organization. But your post gave me the impression that more than dispising JW men, you have no use for men, period. Perhaps you didn't mean that, and I hope not, although your last post does contribute to the idea that you have a problem in that area. It is the way you come across, Larc. I couldn't be sure. I felt you were looking for a response. I responded, with a small measure of trepidation.
So, don't be a smart alec and tell your readers to "Go back and please read again." We know how to read. But the problem is, you're not one of the easiest persons that a reader can understand.
Herk
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larc
Herk, I am in no way trying to put you down. I in no way implied that all jw men are evil or commit the evils we are discussing. I said that the culture is one that allows such evil men to thrive, whatever their number might be. The fact that their is a brotherhood that protects itself does not bug me. It is a fact of life in all brotherhoods, such as doctors, lawyers, politicians, and executives. Sorry, that my first post was unclear. I hope this one better states my position.
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TR
Does anyone know if Jaracz has replied publicly to the charge against him?
If he hasn't, the silence is deafening.
I don't know, if I was a public figure that was falsely charged, I would damn well hold a press conference and proclaim my innocense, not to mention file a law suit for slander.
TR