Loyalty to the truth

by happy man 32 Replies latest jw friends

  • gumby

    Happy man,

    You are correct that OTHER RELIGIONS are bloodguily too. They have done the things you say.

    I was not saying ONLY the Witnesses are guilty of this. Religion of ALL types are guilty in some way. What if Christ never existed? Would all religions who have sent missionaries to other countries, only to be killed for preaching about a Man who may have never existed be bloodguilty.

    How about HERETICS.....those who did not believe in the Trinity or some other church teaching?

    These have been persecuted in MANY ways and many lives have been lost over it.

    Religion to me is problems.....many problems.Love your fellowman and God if you believe he put you here, and do not worry about needing to do something else.

    Take care of yourself, Gumby

    BTW...do you like it in your country? You are safer than we are right now.


    Ive often heard or read comments regarding loyalty to Jehovahs organization and, sometimes in the same context, keeping our integrity. It strikes me that these words are often used as if they were interchangeable, but they are quite different. Loyalty has to do with faithfulness or allegiance to a person, government, organization or other entity. However, that entity may, or may not, be morally upright and just and worthy of a Christians loyalty. History is filled with accounts of loyalty, from Christian martyrs to the cohorts of Hitler. Loyalty to both just and unjust entities or causes is quite common. Integrity, on the other hand, is a little harder to find. Integrity has more to do with the quality or state of being of sound moral principle; uprightness, honesty, and sincerity and being unimpaired in such. The fact is, integrity will not be compromised by misplaced loyalty. A person of integrity will be loyal to truth, but not necessarily to the truth. Integrity will not allow one to accept that which is obviously contrary to truth, decency or common sense, just because it bears the label of someone or something to which we may have tried to lay claim to ones loyalty. To compromise ones Christian integrity through misplaced loyalty, to anyone or anything, is inexcusable.

  • UnDisfellowshipped

    Happy Man said:

    hello U

    i think you have make a vrey bigg work to find evry smaler o bigger wrong thing in Jw religon, however when i read this as you have said in a forme topic.

    #I believe that when they die, everyone who rejects Jesus Christ will end up spending Eternity separated from Jesus Christ in Hell (whether Hell is a Fiery Place of Torment or not, I'm not sure, but I know I don't want to be there no matter what it is.#

    I bee very disturbed, hade you never think about this dont look at the small things widh your fellow man when you have a bigg stock in your one eyes.

    If you belive in hell, this is a very bigg sinn, belife that Jehova will torture evry man on earth who not are a beliver, is a much more and bigger sinn then all these things you count upp fore JW, i must say shame on you, and not in anger but in love, and I hope you never more look on this smal things like change some word here and ther, when you in the same time say, thet your fellow mman must suffer fore ever when you are walking on streets of gold in heaven , this peopel who critisise us, fore smaler things and later tell thet they belife in this hellfire, are hyocrites, thats my wuie.

    so i realy hope you cange your mind, before it is to late.

    wid love from HM

    Hello Happy Man!

    First of all, no matter how you look at things, the Governing Body allowing Pedophiles to molest children FREELY throughout EVERY Congregation in the world is probably the WORST SIN IMAGINABLE ON EARTH.

    Also, Happy Man, I base my beliefs of Hell 100% ENTIRELY on the Teachings on Christ in the Bible.

    Do you honestly think I would believe in Hell, if I hadn't read it in the Bible?

    Also, it doesn't really matter to me, Hell could just be Non-Existence as the JW's claim or it could be a conscious eternity separated from God, however, I still do not want to go there either way.

    Here are the Bible Verses where Jehovah God and Jesus Christ taught about Hell:

    Luke 16:19: "Once there was a rich man who used to dress in purple and fine linen and live in great luxury every day.
    Luke 16:20: A beggar named Lazarus, who was covered with sores, was brought to his gate.
    Luke 16:21: He was always craving to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man's table. In fact, even the dogs used to come and lick his sores.
    Luke 16:22: "One day the beggar died and was carried away by the angels to Abraham's Bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
    Luke 16:23: In Hades, where he was in constant torture, he looked up and saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his Bosom.
    Luke 16:24: So he shouted, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me! Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and to cool off my tongue, because I am suffering in this fire.'
    Luke 16:25: But Abraham said, 'My child, remember that during your lifetime you received blessings, while Lazarus received hardships. But now he is being comforted here, while you suffer.
    Luke 16:26: Besides all this, a wide Chasm has been fixed between us, so that those who want to cross from this side to you can't do so, nor can they cross from your side to us.'
    Luke 16:27: "The rich man said, 'Then I beg you, father, send him to my father's house-
    Luke 16:28: for I have five brothers-to warn them, so that they won't end up in this place of torture, too.'
    Luke 16:29: Abraham said, 'They have Moses and the Prophets. They should listen to them!'
    Luke 16:30: But the rich man replied, 'No, father Abraham! Yet if someone from the dead went to them, they would repent.'
    Luke 16:31: Then Abraham said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded, even if someone rises from the dead.'"

    Isaiah 14:9: Hades from beneath is moved for you to meet you at your coming; it stirs up the dead for you, even all the chief ones of the Earth; it has raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
    Isaiah 14:10: All they shall answer and tell you, Are you also become weak as we? are you become like us?
    Isaiah 14:11: Your pomp is brought down to Hades, and the noise of your viols: the worm is spread under you, and worms cover you.
    Isaiah 14:12: How you are fallen from Heaven, Day-Star (or Lucifer), son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, who laid the nations low!
    Isaiah 14:13: You said in your heart, I will ascend into Heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit on the mountain of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north;
    Isaiah 14:14: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.
    Isaiah 14:15: Yet you shall be brought down to Hades, to the uttermost parts of the Pit.
    Isaiah 14:16: Those who see you shall gaze at you, they shall consider you, saying, "Is this the man who made the Earth to tremble, who shook kingdoms;
    Isaiah 14:17: 2nd Thessalonians 1:6: Certainly it is right for God to pay back those who afflict you with affliction
    2nd Thessalonians 1:7: and to give us who are afflicted relief when the Lord Jesus is revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels
    2nd Thessalonians 1:8: in blazing fire. He will take revenge on those who do not know God and on those who refuse to obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus.
    2nd Thessalonians 1:9: Such people will suffer the punishment of eternal destruction by being separated from the Lord's Presence and from His glorious power
    2nd Thessalonians 1:10: when He Comes to be glorified by His Saints and to be regarded with wonder on that Day by all who have believed-including you, because you believed our testimony.

    Matthew 25:41: "Then He will say to those on His left, 'Get away from Me, you who are accursed, into the Eternal Fire that has been prepared for the Devil and his angels!
    Matthew 25:42: For I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink.
    Matthew 25:43: I was a Stranger, and you didn't welcome Me. I was naked, and you didn't clothe Me. I was sick and in prison, and you didn't visit Me.'
    Matthew 25:44: "Then they will reply, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or as a Stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn't help You?'
    Matthew 25:45: Then He will say to them, 'Truly I tell you, in that you did not do it for one of the least important of these, you did not do it for Me.'
    Matthew 25:46: These people will go away into Eternal Punishment, but the righteous will go into Eternal Life."

    Isaiah 33:14: The sinners in Zion are afraid; trembling has seized the godless ones: Who among us can dwell with the Devouring Fire? Who among us can dwell with Everlasting Burning?

    Matthew 13:41: The Son of Man will send His angels, and they will gather from His Kingdom everything that causes others to sin and those who practice lawlessness
    Matthew 13:42: and they will throw them into a Blazing Furnace. In that place there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    Revelation 14:9: Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying in a loud voice, "Whoever worships the Beast and its Image and receives a Mark on his forehead or his hand
    Revelation 14:10: will drink the wine of God's wrath, which has been poured unmixed into the cup of His anger. He will be tortured with Fire and Sulfur in the Presence of the holy angels and the Lamb.
    Revelation 14:11: The smoke from their torture goes up forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the Beast and its Image or for anyone who receives the Mark of its name."

    Revelation 20:10: and the Devil who deceived them was thrown into the Lake of Fire and Sulfur, where the Beast and the False Prophet were. They will be tortured day and night forever and ever.

    Revelation 20:13: The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and all were judged according to their works.
    Revelation 20:14: Death and Hades were thrown into the Lake of Fire. (This is the Second Death-the Lake of Fire.)
    Revelation 20:15: Anyone whose name was not found written in the Book of Life was thrown into the Lake of Fire.

    2nd Peter 2:3: In their greed they will exploit you with deceptive words. The ancient verdict against them is still in force, and their destruction is not asleep.
    2nd Peter 2:4: For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but threw them into the Lowest and Deepest Abyss of Hades and committed them to Chains of Deepest Darkness to be kept for Judgment;

    Jude 1:6: He has also held in Eternal Chains those angels who did not keep their own position but abandoned their assigned place. They are held in Deepest Darkness for Judgment on the Great Day.
    Jude 1:7: Likewise, Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities near them, which like them committed sexual sins and engaged in homosexual activities, serve as an example of the punishment of Eternal Fire.

    Matthew 10:28: Stop being afraid of those who kill the body but can't kill the soul. Instead, be afraid of the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna.

    So, you can see that in the Bible, the Teaching about Hell is VERY CONSISTENT.

    Here is what I have learned:

    Hades and Sheol -- Temporary Place where All of the Dead People's Souls go to. There is a Place of Paradise and a Place of Punishment. Since Jesus Christ's Sacrifice, the Paradise Area of Hades was taken into Heaven, and since then, every Believer who dies, goes directly into Heaven with the Lord.

    The Lake of Fire and Gehenna (The Second Death) -- This is the ETERNAL Place where the Wicked who are in Hades will be thrown.

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