Why some smart people believe the JWs/Bible

by jws 20 Replies latest jw friends

  • done4good
    done4good

    I think a lot of us can relate to this.

    It makes sense too. It is neither natural nor convenient to assume your parents are not giving you sound direction, especially when they are clearly trying to do right by their children. By the time we were old enough to reason for ourselves about the matter, we were already too indoctrinated to mentally pull ourselves away from it. That one-two punch of socialization is very powerful, and will last until something jars it loose. This can and does take decades for many, even the brightest of us.

    It is all about what it takes to cause that jarring effect.

    d4g

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    I think a lot of us can relate to this.

    It makes sense too. It is neither natural nor convenient to assume your parents are not giving you sound direction, especially when they are clearly trying to do right by their children. By the time we were old enough to reason for ourselves about the matter, we were already too indoctrinated to mentally pull ourselves away from it. That one-two punch of socialization is very powerful, and will last until something jars it loose. This can and does take decades for many, even the brightest of us.

    It is all about what it takes to cause that jarring effect.

    I suspect that describes many of us here.

    I also squashed my doubts many times by considering the intelligent people that were in the Org. One elder I know of who majored in Ancient History (not sure if he completed his degree -- I doubt it, since he got sucked into the religion by his wife) and I figured if all that chronology was BS, he would know it and bail on it. Now I wonder if he has bailed on it mentally, but stays "in" for his zealous wifey.

    It took a really big "jarring" to awaken me.

    Doc

  • Sofia Lose
    Sofia Lose

    It is a nice and mild social exchange for me, a click of sorts. Take the abundant good and leave the nonsense ever changing doctrine and prophecies.

    Did you all notice how the meaning of 'Gog and Magog' changed? New light with each new administration. Bull shit!!!

    SL

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    I like the thoughts behind this thread.
    I also consider myself smart. I have a sense of humor too. I will occasionally wonder how I could be so "stupid" to be tricked into the cult. But in reality, I know what happened in my case and I also know that intelligence is not the most relevant thing that gets people there.

    And growing up JW adds a whole other level to the conversation.

    Like you, I had an issue or two, but believed the JWs had the right religion. My doubts grew and grew and I was never burned by the religion, wasn't DF'ed or taken for money, nobody in my family was a pedophile victim or otherwise victimized by WTS. One day, the problems with the religion overwhelmed me and I discovered, among other things- Ray Franz's book. Like you, I hung onto the Bible, but less time- not for a few years, expecting I could find a relationship with God without the JWs. And like you, now I believe in neither.

    Not that you need my opinion, but I say you were "born a JW and [your] parents told [you] this is the true religion" so forgive yourself for not knowing better.

    I have read the Steve Hassan books and learned how cults work. For a born-in, it may be as you say, and it definitely is as you say in your own case- you had "the truth" and there was no need to look around. There are definitely groups out there that tell you what you want to (or need to) hear and take advantage of you.

    While I had a childhood exposure to the JW religion, I converted as an adult and have a completely different experience, so it may have been easier for me to eventually decide that something stinks inside the Watchtower organization.

    I envy anyone that could not really care about religion. I am sure it will help you to put this all behind you quicker. But if not, or because of family, don't kick yourself. It's okay.

  • jws
    jws

    Yes, I was born-in. By JW parents who were JWs about a dozen years before I was even born. So it's all I knew in my formative years.

    Smart is not just a self-delusional opinion. I am a member of a famous high IQ organization that I won't mention so it can't be searched on and used to identify me.

    I feel my particular expertise is in math and logic (IMO, makes me a good programmer). Yet it wasn't me that came to any of these logical realizations about JWs. I had a curiosity about Franz's book and apostates in general. A worldly person and I watched a show about JWs where I could order Franz's book at the end and I was encouraged to and did. And it smacked of the truth and I decided JWs weren't special and left.

    Granted, this was before the internet and search engines. So it's not like I could have just pondered a question and gotten very far. Research is time consuming and some things difficult to find like Franz's book. I'd probably give up before finding answers. There was no google. Even in the early days of the net, some info was scarce. In any event, it took somebody else (Franz) showing me it was wrong. Ulike others (even born-ins on this site) who said "this doesn't make sense" when they were still teens or younger. It was me just going along and accepting BS, not actively searching.

    Losing faith in the Bible was somewhat easier, but a lot was due to others. By that time, the internet was around and Noah's ark got me thinking and I started to research that and read more. And things started to fall like dominoes. Although again, I must admit, a lot of the reasoning came from others and I just saw the truth in it. I am proud of things I saw on my own though.

    I just can't get over that I never pondered these thoughts before. It took help. It took being taught. If I had never encountered Franz, when would I have left? Would I have? I've got to admit my curiosities about "what were the apostates saying?" would have been satisfied by the time the internet arrived. And being a programmer, I would have ignored bans on the internet just like I did about college. So I would have looked and would have found a way out.

    And I know it's somewhat a matter of jealousy and self-pride. Me thinking so highly of myself yet so oblivious.

    OnTheWayOut, I love reading your posts over the years and have a lot of respect for your wisdom and point of view. And feel we might be similar in ways. I do feel you're right. A child trusts and learns what their parents teach. It's probably a survival instinct. I realize how I got in. It's just why did I believe for so long?

    Parents were a big influence. It was just something I never questioned. Maybe for me, like soap, I had a brand and didn't have to think about it. Maybe I didn't care. I liked people telling me I was in the "right" one. And I know I felt lucky about that. If I'd been born to other parents I wouldn't be JW. I'd be in a "false" religion.

    Don't worry about me, I think it's mostly behind me. My father and mother have passed away. Most of my family that was in are out, except for my sisters. Neither of which I've talked to in about 5 years. When my father was alive, that's the most contact I've had with it. I think for some people the fact of being a former JW stays for life and that's why I check in here (and for signs of it's demise).

    It's just that nagging feeling that I could have used my wits to get out sooner. Don't get me wrong. I'm not sitting cursing myself daily, "oh why didn't I see this when I was 10"? It's just a curious thought that comes up from time to time. And something I ask myself. But, whatever turns the journey took, I am where I am now. And I'm OK with that. A sort of, wish the past was different, but can't change it, so learn for the future and to help others.

  • jws
    jws

    DesirousofChange wrote:

    I also squashed my doubts many times by considering the intelligent people that were in the Org.

    My brother-in-law seemed smart. Or at least knew a lot of cool smart things. As I grew up, I lost respect for him from the chauvinist way he treated his daughter. But, he seemed smart and funny AND introduced my brother and I to rock (concerts, movies, my bro to playing guitar).

    Other than that, the other guy I thought of as bright left to become an apostate. Come to think of it, he was born in too and left about the same age I did.

    Maybe my dad, but you also see your dad's imperfections more closely. But once in a while, he was very clever.

    It definitely wasn't bright people that convinced me of the JWs. The elders seemed like power-hungry blue-collar workers who were bossed around all day and couldn't wait for their chance to be the boss. But I figured it was just my congregation. Others had nice elders. But I trusted the authors of the publications as smart, I guess.

  • nevaagain
    nevaagain

    even though i wouldnt consider myself to be the smartest on the planet, i wouldnt consider myself to be dumb as well. but your story @jws sounds similar to mine, except the fact that i am still in, anyway.

    Before i got baptized my elder dad who I consider to be book smart (he reads a lot!!!, even worldly literature!!!) used to tell me, that i should research if thats the truth. So I asked him, where should I start with my research, and he would always point to the bible and the jw literature.

    But see, being at the age of 13/14/15 I had better things to do that spend my free time doing research in the bible when I was barely doing my homework because of other interests.

    But kudos to my dad for not pushing me to get baptized while everybody else was, especially my mom who I love a lot, but she is not the brightest person.

    So reasons why I got baptized:

    - To get everybody who was pushing me to get baptised off my back (that was every person who wanted to go out in service with me and my mom)
    - Putting a stop to the study with my parents
    - Make my parents proud

    Thats how I got baptized at the age of 15. Add the fact that my friends back then were also getting baptized I being shy back then, I didnt want to do that step alone.

    Speaking about my book smart dad, I had a lot of discussions about 607/1914 and the generation changes with my dad. Sometimes he appears open minded and sometimes he appears as a cult member, which tells me that he probably also has his doubts. Regarding 607 he said that he believes that the WTS did their research and probably everybody else is wrong. He doesnt like the new teaching regarding the generation, he thinks it is way too complicated and the average rink and file member would never understand it. But at the end of the day, he told me with his own words "even if the wts is wrong, where should we go?"

    and i thinkt thats the reason that even some smart members stay

    sidenote: isnt it funny that before you are allowed to get baptized they ask you 100+ questions but you can still get baptized for all the wrong reasons?

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard
    a born here too, but even without the scandals (UN membership, child abuse) their core doctrines never sat well at all with me and even as a young lad, the destruction of billions of non jw's at the Big A seemed preposterous even from a young age, as did the blood doctrine, as I grew older my life as a jw was just a social club but in those days of pre inerweb and before Ray Franz' publications I just went along going through the motions paying lip service to this odd religious belief system I was born into, again I wouldn't consider myself to be particularly bright, I went through school being "the average kid" in almost every subject except sports and art, my elder father was far more studious and creative and adapted very well in the world of everything jw related, good speaker, young elder etc, but I always had an inquisitive side to me and one of the very few snippets I gleaned from my life as a jw was an ability to debate and research which at the outset of me having deep doubts and looking to find TTATT led me to my local library, the rest is history!
  • truthseeker100
    truthseeker100

    I just went along going through the motions paying lip service to this odd religious belief system I was born into

    Me too Jookbeard. I can honestly say that there was not a time while being a JW that I felt comfortable with it. Maybe that's why I never brought anyone "into the truth" even though I had the opportunity on many occasions to do so. I was sort of like those people that walked really slow from house to house hoping to find not at homes.

  • jookbeard
    jookbeard
    same here TS100, not one single bible study, I couldn't have lived with myself drawing an innocent victim to their strange, dull world, I would prefer not to even go on RV's , any books I placed (not many) were simply forgotten about, I'd never even keep my notes of house number etc.

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