by JosephAlward 53 Replies latest jw friends
You can do a little better than that can't ya Joseph? Some of your arguments are OK ....others are lame.
I suppose James, John, Simon and the others should have stayed with their folks till they died eh?
Putting him first over their families didn't mean his diciples could not still honor their parents.
I'm a sceptical doubtful person of the bible myself......but use a little better backup than what you do.
Breeze, you got that right,
"Let heavier work be laid upon the men that they may labor at it and pay no regard to lying words" [Pharaoh]
I really like this bit.
"When they got out on land, they saw a charcoal fire there, with fish lying on it, and bread."
paduan
Simple fact: Jesus is not recorded saying or doing anything much (lazarus does come to mind) that would lead us to believe he showed even normal human affection for friends and family. He is recorded saying things that would lead one to the conclusion that he thinks family must take a back seat to his version of worship. And who talks to their momma like that?
His example, in total, is certainly not pro family, and has certainly, even if misconstrued, led many christians to have an unbalanced and unloving family life.
Many of you just need to get over Jesus. Geez! Do you really think he wants your mindless devotion? Don't answer that.
That Jesus explicitly encouraged his followers to abandon their families is made clear in Luke 14:26, where the writer has Jesus tell his followers to think more of him than their families: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
The way scriptures are presented have a lot (everything) to do with how they are received and this is one of those cases, as far as I'm concerned anyway, that shows me there was a lot of poor translation going on from the beginning when they were first translated and it just turned into a snowball.
It would make no sense for Jesus to say to some Love thy neighbor as you would love thy self and turn to another and say If you dont hate you mother you cant play with me. Someone screwed up.
edited because my quotations do not appear. So it seems.
Edited by - plmkrzy on 14 October 2002 21:11:6
Here's additional evidence that Jesus was not a peace-loving, family-oriented teacher:
Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn "a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law--a man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:34-36)
How could the son of God--if that's what he was--NOT have come to earth to bring peace, and why would he come to earth to turn family members against each other? Didn't he know how to bring them closer together? He SHOULD have known, since he was the son of the all-knowing God. Now, you can either believe that Jesus was not peace-loving, and not pro-family, or you can believe that Matthew was wrong about what Jesus said. Either way, the Bible is in big trouble.
I'm still waiting for a verse which shows Jesus promoting family togetherness, or showing love toward his own family members, or encouraging one of his friends to love his family more. If they don't exist, then the verses which DO exist, which show him denying a man time off to bury his father, and asking people to hate their mother and father, and his testimony that he came to earth to turn family members against each other, should be proof enough even for true-believers that Jesus was NOT pro-family, and was indeed quite the opposite. This is perhaps how some JW's justify giving up on family members who leave the organization.
Joseph F. Alward
"A Skeptical View of Christianity and the Bible"
http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html
YOU have been provided numerous examples: the resurrection of his friend Lazarus, his injunction to offer a child bread and not a viper, to rescue a child from the well on the Sabbath, his provision of wine for his friends at the wedding feast, his feeding the 5000, his requirement that we love our neighbors as ourself, his kindness to Peter who chopped the Roma's ear off, as well as to the Roman himself who he cured, his cure sof many people, th erefernce to John whom he "loved the most/" What do you want? Do you seriously think that a minor denizen of the web such as yourself has any credence even with secular theologians. Man, even they would eat you for their lunch without breaking a sweat.
Basically, you are an arrogant fool if you demand that we provide you chapter and verse for well known stories - stories that are the very lifeblood of Christianity. Look 'em up for yourself - that is if you are capable of doing so without so besmirching your Bible with the vitriolic froth spouting from your mouth that the ink becomes illegible.
Know_You
Joseph,
Know-You writes,
YOU have been provided numerous examples:
Joe Alward responds:
Actually, I have not been provided any example which shows Jesus promoting FAMILY togetherness, or showing love toward his own FAMILY members, or encouraging one of his friends to love his FAMILY more. I began this thread to offer a possible justification for shunning family members. If the Bible doesn't show Jesus loving his FAMILY, and counseling others to do all they can to foster familial togetherness, it is not surprising that in some religions family takes a back seat, while religion rides up front.
If any one of the hundreds of people in the forum knows of a single verse which shows that Jesus promoted family togetherness, or showed even ONE single act of kindness toward his mother or brother, or asked or counseled a disciple or follower to show more love toward his family, I hope they will show it to the rest of us. If it's not shown, we should assume that such a verse doesn't exist.
Edited by - JosephAlward on 14 October 2002 22:5:8
Interesting thread.
