Jesus Set Precedent for Shunning

by JosephAlward 53 Replies latest jw friends

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Abandon Family to Serve God ?

    A contradiction not often discussed relates to the biblical teaching to abandon family in order to serve God. Matthew claims that Jesus told his disciples to "Honor your father and mother." (Matthew 19:19), but this cannot be reconciled with the example set by Jesus, as the passages below will show.

    Jesus enticed two separate sets of brothers away from their families, the first being the fishermen Simon and Andrew, who left their trade and, presumably, their family, to follow Jesus (Mark 1:16-18). Later, James and John did the same thing, leaving their father behind (Mark 1:19-20).

    That Jesus explicitly encouraged his followers to abandon their families is made clear in Luke 14:26, where the writer has Jesus tell his followers to think more of him than their families: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)

    Jesus contempt for all things familial is further illustrated in the story of the disciple who begged for permission to bury his father: "Lord, first let me go and bury my father," Jesus told him to let him rot: "Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead." (Matthew 8:21-22) You would think that the son of an all-loving God would be sensitive enough to the poor son's grief that he would give him a few hours time off to tend to his father's corpse. Either Jesus wasn't the son of a god, or else Matthew was wrong about what Jesus said, or the historical Jesus never existed. Either way, the Bible has a big problem.

    Jesus later set the example for others to follow, by himself abandoning his mother and brother. After his mother and brothers had said that he was out of his mind, and appeared outside a house to take charge of him," (Mark 3:21) Mark does not have Jesus invite her inside, nor does Mark have Jesus go outside to greet her. Instead, Mark has Jesus makes it clear to his followers inside the house that he does not regard the woman outside as his mother. He explains to his followers what his definition of a mother is: A mother is whoever does the will of God, (Mark 3:31-35), with the clear implication being that one who didn't recognize Jesus as the son of God was obviously not in tune with the will of God:

    "Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you. Who are my mother and my brothers? he asked. Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother." (Mark 3:31-35)

    Thus, Jesus effectively abandons his mother to serve God, thereby setting the example for the readers of Marks gospel to follow should their families, too, not believe that Jesus was the son of God. Thus, almost two thousand years before the practice of shunning of unbelieving family members was put into practice by a multitude of Christian cults, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, the precedence for this behavior was established by Jesus himself.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "A Skeptical View of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

    Edited by - JosephAlward on 14 October 2002 19:31:43

  • JT
    JT

    JOE YOU ARE ONE SICK DUDE- smile

    but i love it- great post

    yep jesus was like if you don't leave your MAMMA and join me YOU DIE

    THAT'S PRETTY COLD

  • minimus
    minimus

    Thank you for clarifying the "Christian" practice of disfellowshipping.

  • Know_You
    Know_You

    Your words serve only to reinforce the hardhitting, but dead on the money, counsel that Jehovah's Witnesses have received for decades through the spirit-directed faithful and discreet slave. That a worldling such as yourself can see the wisdom in protecting the congregation, while the vast mass of misled apostate participants here cannot, shows just how blinded they have become.

    What a loving example Jesus set forth in putting Jehovah and the organization before soon to be ended fleshly relationships - that is unless the wrongder repents - which is the whole objective of this merciful arrangement.

    Know_You

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    So, I guess you're saying it's wrong to get married and leave your parents? That's a lesson in shunning!

    Are you saying it's wrong to have such a passion for a career that it causes you to leave home, because this also is shunning?

    Are you saying that if a parent dies and one of the children does not attend the funeral, this is shunning?

    It is obvious the events you cite were lessons written in allegory. You know very well that just as many if not more scriptures could be cited which support the other side, that Jesus taught to love others including family and friends.

    JT, is right "you are one sick dude." (no smile)

    IW

  • metatron
    metatron

    He also hung out with whores, who had little chance of
    other employment in a world that devalued women.

    If you consult a book on Aramaic customs, the 'bury my father'
    stuff wasn't necessarily that bad. It may infer a considerable
    length of time (years)

    metatron

  • JosephAlward
    JosephAlward

    Island Woman wrote, "You know very well that just as many if not more scriptures could be cited which support the other side, that Jesus taught to love others including family and friends."

    Joseph Alward responds: I would be happy to modify my position on Jesus' attitude toward the family and friends, but I'm not aware off-hand which verses in the Bible explicity have Jesus expressing the view that one should love one's family and friends. I also don't recall any instances where Jesus demonstrated an explicit act of kindness toward a friend or family member. If these verses exist, will someone kindly point them out to me? If they don't exist, then perhaps Island Woman will need to rethink her position. If they DO exist, then I will have to rethink mine.

    Joseph F. Alward
    "A Skeptical View of Christianity and the Bible"
    http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    Read! Just read. Apparently you have decided to not "read" but just see what you want to see. That's fine with me.

    IW

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    and, presumably, their family, to follow Jesus

    A presumption. Nevertheless, was it Jesus who set the precedent, or others who were still hearing on another level. And I haven't read any bits that said, "Jesus didn't talk to his family anymore" - He looked after His mom, and the rest of His family.

    " If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father (the devil) and mother (sensuality), his wife (vanity) and children (works), his brothers (unlawful appetites) and sisters (wanton thoughts) --yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple ."

    Maybe those who abandoned their relatives to a state of suffering didn't really get it about the love thing.

    I would 'presume' the apostles' families were rather taken with the idea of them going on a mission with the re-appearing guy who did miracles.

    Instead, Mark has Jesus makes it clear to his followers inside the house that he does not regard the woman outside as his mother.

    Really?

    paduan

    Edited by - a paduan on 14 October 2002 19:41:29

  • Know_You
    Know_You

    : I also don't recall any instances where Jesus demonstrated an explicit act of kindness toward a friend or family member.

    So we have yet another vile apostate roosting in our midst, a son of Satan intent on deceiving with apostate words and false charges. It is no wonder, for did not Peter writ eof those who like unseen rocks would seek to shipwreck our faith.

    A man who pretends to be a skeptical voice on Christianity bears no credibility when he demonstrates such shameful ignorance of the facts. Did Jesus not turn water into wine, did he not feed the 5000, did he not ask who would give his son a viper if that child asked for food? Are these the teachings of a man who would do not good for family and friends? Did he not cure the soldier's ear which Peter had removed? Did he not show mercy to the evildoer on the stake? Did he not preach to love others as one would love onself. Did he not ask who would not rescue his son fallen in a well on the Sabbath.

    Know_You

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