Evolution or creation?

by haujobbz 155 Replies latest jw friends

  • rem
    rem

    Pomegranate,

    Evolution demands more faith than believing in God.

    Yes, your version of Evolution requires more faith than believing in god. Fortunately, Evolution as it is understood and explained by scientists does not require faith. Maybe you should do some reading and see the difference between your version of Evolution and the real thing.

    Discussing this with you is as pointless as discussing algebra to a two year old. If there is no fundamental knowledge, then there is no common ground to work on. We have already provided you with resources that will enable you to get this knowledge, but we cannot force feed it to you.

    Science is complicated. It's hard and takes a lot of work. Lots of reading and study. It's explanations are not as easy as "goddidit", but they are much more powerful.

    rem

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Scientific Disciplines
    Established By Bible-Believing Scientists

    Discipline Scientist
    Antiseptic Surgery Joseph Lister (1827-1912)
    Bacteriology Louis Pasteur (1822-1895)
    Calculus Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
    Celestial Mechanics Johann Kepler (1571-1630)
    Chemistry Robert Boyle (1627-1691)
    Comparative Anatomy Georges Cuvier (1769-1832)
    Computer Science Charles Babbage (1792-1871)
    Dimensional Analysis Lord Rayleigh (1842-1919)
    Dynamics Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
    Electrodynamics James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)
    Electromagnetics Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
    Electronics Ambrose Fleming (1849-1945)
    Energetics Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
    Entomology of Living Insects Henri Fabre (1823-1915)
    Field Theory Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
    Galactic Astronomy William Herschel (1738-1822)
    Gas Dynamics Robert Boyle (1627-1691)
    Genetics Gregor Mendel (1822-1884)
    Glacial Geology Louis Agassiz (1807-1873)
    Gynecology James Simpson (1811-1870)
    Hydraulics Leonardo da Vinci (1452-1519)
    Hydrography Matthew Maury (1806-1873)
    Hydrostatics Blaise Pascal (1623-1662)
    Ichthyology Louis Agassiz (1807-1873)
    Isotopic Chemistry William Ramsay (1852-1916)
    Model Analysis Lord Rayleigh (1842-1919)
    Natural History John Ray (1627-1705)
    Non-Euclidean Geometry Bernhard Riemann (1826-1866)
    Oceanography Matthew Maury (1806-1873)
    Optical Mineralogy David Brewster (1781-1868)
    Paleontology John Woodward (1665-1728)
    Pathology Rudolph Virchow (1821-1902)
    Physical Astronomy Johann Kepler (1571-1630)
    Reversible Thermodynamics James Joule (1818-1889)
    Statistical Thermodynamics James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)
    Stratigraphy Nicholas Steno (1631-1686)
    Systematic Biology Carolus Linnaeus (1707-1778)
    Thermodynamics Lord Kelvin (1824-1907)
    Thermokinetics Humphrey Davy (1778-1829)
    Vertebrate Paleontology Georges Cuvier (1769-1832)

    Edited by - pomegranate on 10 October 2002 13:55:29

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    The Law of Biogenesis - Only life produces life.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    The Law of Cause and Effect - Every effect must have an equal or greater cause.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    Evolution DEFIES LAW.

  • gumby
    gumby

    Rem , We have already provided you with resources that will enable you to get this knowledge, but we cannot force feed it to you.

    Thats really the issue with most that are searching for what they want to be truth.

    Many that turn from one belief system to another do so on grounds not established by themselves in their own mind to make a good honest choice...Too bad

    Pom...................Evolution DEFIES LAW.

    I'm sure this one is very debatable.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    The Law of Biogenesis - Only life produces life.

    Evolution theories (as they are a dime a dozen) have NEVER undone this law as there is NO research that counters the LAW of BIOGENESIS. Science has never produced life from the non-living. (Dr. Frankenstein has though. )

    Evolution can't even get around the LAW of CAUSE and EFFECT. Never has, never will.

    Evolution denies the Great First Cause...

    Any Einstein's here do your studies on Thermodynamics? Huh? Have ya? Well, remember this LAW?

    The Second Law of Thermodynamics - All matter and energy is becoming less ordered and less complex - everything is running down.

    But evolution DEFIES THIS LAW ULTIMATELY. They have to teach matter and energy is becoming MORE complex over time, everything is running UP.

    WRONG! Go back to school and think for yourselves.

    "What is the probability of life arising from atoms to molecules, amino acids to protein (don't forget all life proteins are left-handed in configuration), DNA to messenger RNA, single cell to sexual reproduction, all the way to the human body with wonders of the brain and its senses, the heart and the circulation, the clotting cascade, the immune system, the wound repair and healing mechanisms? Bear in mind that all these have to go against the second law of thermodynamics, law of irreducible complexity, and the fact that most mutations are harmful." Dr. C.P. Yu - neuro-surgeon and a Fellow of the Hong Kong College of Surgeons.

    With that in mind, there is a humongous amount of knowledge and information from each camp on line and off. I encourage each and every one to go into the gory details of both opposing views and draw your own conclusions.

    Edited by - pomegranate on 10 October 2002 14:41:15

  • rem
    rem

    Pomegranate,

    I'm not sure what the relevance of your list of bible believing scientists is. I can provide another list just as long or longer of non-believing scientists. I can also provide a list of Buhdists scientists and Hindu ones. What does it prove? Nothing.

    Law of Biogenesis: Only life produces life, eh? So you think this proves that God must have created life on earth. That would mean that God is living and would need to have been created by another life. Infinite regression ensues...

    Law of Cause and Effect: Every effect must have an equal or greater cause? Interesting... so what caused God? Infinite regression ensues...

    Not sure where you are getting your "laws" from, but I can assure you that Evolution doesn't break a one of them. Sounds like you have more issues with Abiogenesis than Evolution... but you wouldn't know that because you don't even know what you are arguing against.

    rem

    Edited by - rem on 10 October 2002 14:44:2

  • rem
    rem

    Pomegranate,

    With that in mind, there is a humongous amount of knowledge and information from each camp on line and off. I encourage each and every one to go into the gory details of both opposing views and draw your own conclusions.

    Ha! That's a laugh, you hypocrite. You are the one who refuses to look at both sides of the issue dispassionately as I and many others on this board have.

    Your tired arguments about the second law of thermodynamics reveal your ignorance. If your understanding were true, then a whole multitude of things would not be possible, including snow-flakes, crystals, and even fetal development.

    If you actually understood the second law of thermodynamics, then you would know that it's law of entropy only applies within closed systems. The earth is most certainly not a closed system. We have this neat little thing called the sun providing energy into the system.

    You really need to take Abraham Lincoln's advice to heart.

    rem

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate
    I'm not sure what the relevance of your list of bible believing scientists is. I can provide another list just as long or longer of non-believing scientists. I can also provide a list of Buhdists scientists and Hindu ones. What does it prove? Nothing.

    Read it again friend. They are the believers who identified and ESTABLISHED THOSE PARTICULAR SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES. Which covers just about all of them.

    Law of Biogenesis: Only life produces life, eh? So you think this proves that God must have created life on earth. That would mean that God is living and would need to have been created by another life. Infinite regression ensues...

    That is such a childish reply. My six year old knows the concept of God always being. Even mathematicians know infinity exists. You haven't grasped that concept yet?

    Law of Cause and Effect: Every effect must have an equal or greater cause? Interesting... so what caused God? Infinite regression ensues...

    See the above. Your self willed finite mind can't get out of it's self willed finite way to see the Infinite Being that causes all.

    Not sure where you are getting your "laws" from, but I can assure you that Evolution doesn't break a one of them. Sounds like you have more issues with Abiogenesis than Evolution... but you wouldn't know that because you don't even know what you are arguing against.
    Even true evolutionists know they do defy the LAWS of simple science, you show your intentionally retained ignorance quite well.

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