scams scams and more scams (page 3)

Xandit

For somebody:

1 Who buys the land (if it wasn't an outright gift to the society, from a r&f member)
Generally a Corporation made up of local Witnesses, in some cases it's a board of trustees.

2 Who borrows money from who for mortgages on new Kingdom Halls?
The congregation(s) borrow the money to build KHs from the Organization, usually. For Assembly Halls the money is supposed to be donated by the Circuits in the catchment area before they start. Sometimes the Organization makes some sort of bridging loan but they really want the things cashed out when they are built.

3 Who physically builds the halls?
Volunteers, the Regional Buildin Committee.

4 Who pays for maintainence of the building?
Maintenance is paid by the Operating Committee which may be the Officers of the Corporation or the trustees. That varies a lot depending on how many congregations are involved, etc. Technically it's the responsiblity of the Corporation or Trustees.

5 Once the building is paid for, who owns it?
The Corporation or Board of Trustees, as representatives of the Congregation(s) The Corporation or Trustees could actually sell the property out from under the Congregation but the only time I've heard of anything like that happening was in Bonham, Texas.

6 Who's name is on the deed to all the land and halls?
The Corporation or Board of Trustees, as representatives of the Congregation(s)

MacHislopp

Hello Somebody,

I thought I do share what I know
but many thanks to Xandit ...he moved faster!

Agape, J.C.MacHislopp

zev

Thanks all for your replys. I'm sure others have some thoughts? Ideas? As to where all the money goes? How about this one....Each and every year the congregations have to make a "mandetory" contribution the the co/do fund, it covers their health benifits and car leases and insurance and stuff. With all the millions the wtbts has stashed, they make the congregations support that expense . Another injustice. Thoughts?

__
zev
Sitting on the Wrong Side of the Fence Class

stephenw20

Zev,
Yes I had thought about Insurance and the like...the society seems to be in the Insurance business and then is not..some hospitals list them as a Mangaged care provider.

On the insurance end, in the early 80s I had insurance through Alan Ross ins out of oHio...he aslo did the insurance for all traveling brosthers...well eith her was not doing well or it was time for a cahnge see thsi link......

what I find intersting..... is that this comapny ....was losing money a few months before the WTBTS ...signed this three year deal...then they secure PRIVATE financing ang they start making money....

http://www.firstprioritygroup.com/News19.htm

jschwehm

Hi Gang-

I used to work at the accounting department at the assemblies where people would buy the food tickets and use those to purchase food. The money made from the food was used to help pay for the expenses of using the assembly hall. That is why the Society was "encouraged" people to purchase food and eat at the assembly. I suspect they changed to the donation arrangement for food to avoid paying sales tax and when the people eventually quit donating enough to cover the cost of the food they quit providing the food. In addition, it was not uncommon for us to hold off counting some of the money towards the end of the assembly so as to show a deficit that could be reported to the assembly so as to motivate people to give more money.
Also, at the circuit assemblies it was always interesting to see the District Overseer show up and get his money from us. :)

One year I worked in the accounting department for an international convention in New Orleans. At the end of the day, we would make a deposit of the days receipts. I would drive the car and we would be followed by a bunch of armed police and security guards to the bank. It was quite a production. :)

Jeff S.

Prisca

it was not uncommon for us to hold off counting some of the money towards the end of the assembly so as to show a deficit that could be reported to the assembly so as to motivate people to give more money.

Thought this was worth high-lighting and repeating.

BTW, I was in the Accounts Dept on the Sunday evening after the District Convention a few years ago. (The only sister amongst MS's and Elders!) I can vouch for the armed guards thing. We put all the money (after being counted 3 times) into a safe, and the safe was loaded into a truck driven by a local security firm. As Jeff S said, it was quite a production!

qwerty

In our district each cong pays monthly to the assembly hall. The amount is decided by the local elders, depending on the amount of publishers each cong as. The Elder's ask the cong by a show of hands if they agree on the amount (the majority put their hands up anyway), as if they have a choice!

The amount I think recently was either £60 or £100. I have feeling it was upped to £100. 14 congs in our city times £100 = £1,400 per month times by 12 months = £16,800 per year. Oh then there are all the other congs who use the hall in our circuit & district too!

mustang

1stly, I'm NOT a Loyalist Defender of Brooklyn... But, get some real business sense applied to this mess.

2ndly, the closest statements on here that are based on business knowledge are expatbrit and xandit.

It is very possible to make a HUGE profit on one event and run at a loss on others. Xandit said "pro-rated"; hold that thought and apply it to the previous sentence. You have to apply ALL the profits AND losses to a balance sheet at the end of the accounting period.

The food goes AWAY, donations have to go UP, this is NOT the way it should be? WRONG!!! The food goes AWAY, one source of revenue is NO MORE, expenses HAVEN'T GONE DOWN, money STILL has to come from somewhere, therefore OTHER DONATIONS MUST GO UP!!! Get real, people. Do the logic. Look at all the angles.

A very long time ago, I saw Convention Financial Reports. Things have probably changed in 20 years, but they used to read them at the end of Circuit Assemblies to insure a last minute donation flurry.

StephenW20: The IRS knows about all these people. They recognize that NON-PROFIT operations will mean money is sheltered. WTS has been doing accounting, bookkeeping and taxes longer than ANY OF US HAVE BEEN ALIVE. (Vow of Poverty, neat trick. I've seen the US Code/CFR on that one. I have a lecture on that one.)

Where is the money going? I heard something about 50 M$ spent at Patterson. Any body bought a printing press lately?

3rdly, is there a problem and where? Yes, indeed, it's stunts like the Tacoma Dome (or Tacoma Gate, as it should be known). It seems to me that there is the makings of a scandal in there, or at least some stink. But it seems that little can come of this. Because..., there is a certain term that could be applied here that USED TO BE A CRIME (Criminal Law). It is now an accepted procedure of Civil Law. (Subject for another lecture.) The black hats just went gray.

It's always tempting to cry FOUL, in these instances. And some people will write Brooklyn about these "injustices". But, any accountant or auditor will tell you that these are standard procedures after looking at the books. At least some more complete views were demonstrated toward the end of this posting.

Mustang
who manages 6-figure projects

Pathofthorns

Thanks for your post Mustang. I say it makes alot of sense.

I think the biggest thing that bothers publishers is they hear these huge figures tossed around and they can't get access to a breakdown of where the money actually goes. I think if they did this, more people would be set at ease.

At the local congregation level, it is easy to get this breakdown of figures but it becomes more difficult as you go to the circuit/district/regional levels. At least if we had an idea of what the Society takes in and where the money is going, more people would be able to adjust their donations accordingly.

This is common with most governments when they run a surplus they tend to give tax breaks to give the people a break and when they need money they tend to invent a new tax to get it.

Many think that if the Governments have to be accountable to the people for their expenditures, so should the Organization to the people who finance it. The books should be accessible to the members of the organization if they are accessible to the Governments.

Path

stephenw20

Mustang,
your business prowess proceeds you.

nice to have such a"in the know "fella here.

I agree printing presses are not free. Of course labor is generally quite cheap at this place. Money BEGETTS money....

whether they live within the laws of the non profit world is not my concern. What is , is the thougth they put forward of honesty integerity and example. Yet since 1916 no public rcord of their financial statements has been made.

When one hides something ,it is generally(i know this is a dangerous word) because there is something to hide.

Add to this that in the last FEW years it appears the WTBTS has with little word( or none) to its R&F just added corp after corp , and started investments, and business dealings with less than profitable businesses. THey also seem to be on the FOREFRONT of the blood research , and one needs to wonder why a PUBLISHING corporation would be there. If there is legitimate, research going on, since corporations seem to be their thing....form one for the research and let all the R&F know.

FEW if any R&F know the 800 # 24 hr hotline number for blood crisis ...and youll have troulbe finding it on the Watchtower web site..but it is all over bloodless program websites.

Mustang you have many fine points but this stuff stll stinks...... and it wreeks of dishonesty.......

S

PS If they were not in the printing business and did not have access to WEEKLY communication withthe R&F ....it may be more understandable that none of this come out..... but well........ you know that just is not the case.

scams scams and more scams

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