For those that have been deterred, how will we ever know for it to become a statistic?
If the crime rate drops when a country or state introduces the death penalty.
Is the death penalty effective in usa?
by haujobbz 41 Replies latest jw friends
-
funkyderek
-
Crazy151drinker
Hmm on the same side a stable, non-increasing crime rate, could also be a sign of deterence. But in reality, If Im mad at the World or hate my ex, or johnny stole my rock, im not going to be thinking about ANY concenquences!!! I just want to kill my ex or get my rock back!! Besides, do criminals actually think they are going to get caught??? Of course not! So obviously there is no such thing as true deterence.
-
funkyderek
!! Besides, do criminals actually think they are going to get caught??? Of course not! So obviously there is no such thing as true deterence.
Agreed. It's not like anyone would think: "Well if I kill this guy I'll only get life in prison. Boy I'm sure glad I don't live in a country with the death penalty. There's no way I'd do it then!" -
Double Edge
If the crime rate drops when a country or state introduces the death penalty.
If only statistics were that easy. I've heard that they confiscated the guns from the private citizens in Australia a few years ago. Now it seems that crime is up, including murder.
-
FreeWilly
Increased crime rates is a natural and predictable result of removing guns from private citizens. The implications IMO are rather obvious. The odds have been dramatically tipped in favor of the armed criminals (who, being criminal will not surrender their guns). Private citizens, in the face of an armed opponent, have no other option - they become an easy victim. Jail house polls have repeatedly shown that a primary fear among criminals is the possibility being shot by a citizen or officer during their crime. Statistically it has been shown that where gun rights has been reinstated, violent crimes were reduced. It ties in rather nicely with the whole theme of deterence. The vast majority of criminals do not want to die as a result of their behavior.
!! Besides, do criminals actually think they are going to get caught??? Of course not! So obviously there is no such thing as true deterence.
Criminals almost always take advance precautions to prevent their discovery and capture. The simple act of donning a mask clearly illustrates that. The vast majority of crimnals do not want to suffer the legal consequences of their behavior either.
Both of these "fears" can be used to deter crime. Case in point. After hurricaine Andrew hit south Miami wholesale looting immediatlely followed. Why? The chances of capture/arrest was extremely low. This behavior WAS previously deterred by the probabilty of arrest. The absence of that probability directly resulted in criminal behavior - even by those who otherwise would not have considered it. What deterred these crimes? Those private citizens who immediately armed themselves and protected their property had little problems with theives. Further, when a greater law enforcement presence was established wholesale looting almost immediatly ceased
Deterence works. Its the reason why YOU will surrender you money even if you feel it was unjustly taxed. You don't want to risk jail time and neither do I.
Edited by - Freewilly on 26 August 2002 17:38:52
Edited by - Freewilly on 26 August 2002 17:50:7
-
Englishman
...but, the UK's murder rate, per head of population, is far less than America' is. But is that because we have no death penalty?
Or is that we have no death penalty because we don't need it as much?
Englishman.
-
ISP
Well from my stand point....the death penalty is not effective as a deterrent. Its not a complete deterrent. People are still not afraid/deterred from murder etc. Its effective in that it does kill people...hopefully the criminals. It doesn't always.
ISP
-
FreeWilly
Interesting question Englishman
I think the crime rate is greater per head of household here because our pubs here in the USA are nowhere near the quality of those in England! All the local bars around my neighborhood have New Castle on tap - no crime here. Are we on to something here?
Seriously though, Crime rates do vary from culture to culture. Japan is a country where even criminals still abide by a honor system of sorts. In the US drugs have sponsored all sorts of violent crimes. Additionally the Gangster image is revered among many inner city youths. I think its very difficult to measure a direct cause and effect of the death penalty across borders. I think it would perhaps be more accurate to focus on statistics (yawn) before and after the death penalty was enacted - within a single country. Even then its a pretty daunting task. Some have suggested that the USA's overall decreasing crime trend can be directly tied to the Supreme Courts decision on abortion in the early 70's (Roe vs Wade). Now there's one to talk about.
BTW I do remember reading a paper that noted the direct corellation of recent increasing violent crime rates in the UK with the implementation of restrictive private citizen gun ownership laws. Similar trends have been noted in Canada and Australia. I know its a little off topic, but had to mention it.
-
bigboi
but, the UK's murder rate, per head of population, is far less than America' is. But is that because we have no death penalty?
I'd say it's because of many of y'alls public policies. Most notably your enlightened view of drug addiction. IMO, almost all the excessive crime committed in the USA today can be traced either directly or indirectly to illegal drugs.
ONE....
bigboi
-
Double Edge
One last thought about statistics.... they can be very flawed with regards to portraying the 'truth' about a sitiuation.
Case in point is the statistic about murder in this country....high yes. Murdered by guns from someone you know...very high.
The skewing comes in when they don't reveal that a large part of those murders are drug related, gangs killing gang members ... people they 'know' ... do I care? Only that I wish we didn't have the problem that destroys peoples' families and lives... do I care about gang members killing other gang members who are ruining the society....not really.