Jehovah's Undeserved Kindness

by Amazing 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing

    Hi Expatbrit: The web site Friday refers to is at: ... If you click on the Essay Section you will see the contributed articles, the latest is titled - Eternal Life on Earth?

  • LDH1

    Of course, Paul being a murderer of the followers of Jesus, and still being allowed to live,may certainly mean that *he* received undeserved kindness from the LORD.

    That doesn't mean the rest of us are in the boat with Paul, though.

    Think: a parent has five children, and all five children do things you expect children will do. Misbehave on occasion, don't do their school studies on time, read past "lights out" time.

    One of those children does something to the family that is worthy of receiving the ultimate family punishment. The parents react in a merciful manner, with kindness and understanding of that child's weakness. Surely, that child has a right to talk about the "undeserved kindness" he or she received.

    But, when that same kid goes on blathering to others about the "undeserved kindness" that *all* of the children receive, he/she may be stretching it a bit, don't you think? Trying to lump the other children in with him/herself may be just a bit much.

    "Jehovah" is the one who, according to the WBTS has the power to stop the suffering that his children are put through on a daily basis. And yet, he doesn't. Where is this "Kindness" I'm hearing so much of?


  • ThiChi

    ". . .falsely labeled Jehovah"

    Hey, I like that! Very true,

  • Yadirf

    Jim Dandy,

    ear-tickling. This is a typical JW phrase, ear-tickling

    No, it's by no means a phrase exclusive to the JWs. I've heard it mentioned by other so-called "ministers" of Christendom many a time before, as I surfed the religious channels on TV.

    Yet ... it is far better to receive the love and grace of the true God and father of Jesus Christ,

    Here you claim to have received the love and grace of God and his son, Jesus. Care to relate to the world the specific details of exactly what you have "received"?

    ridiculers like yourself

    Turn about fair play, eh?

    the heavy-hand of the ego-maniac invented by the Watchtower and falsely labeled Jehovah.

    You're simply resentful over the fact that you finally became so infatuated with the world that you no longer could remain loyal to God's righteous requirements whereas the Brothers you left behind are still out there faithfully doing what they know is right.

    You need to lighten-up, take a deep breath, and take another long look at who you worship, for he certainly does not resemble the God who sent his only begotten son to die for the world he so loved.

    Now THAT is sure something for someone to be saying who has serious doubts about the Bible's authenticity!


  • expatbrit

    Thanks for the link Amazing.

    And thanks to you too Friday, for bringing this website to my attention.


  • Yadirf


    Has WENT [gone] downhill, huh?

    You illiterate sumbitch.

    LOL! I suppose that Simon will let the both of them pass.


  • teenyuck

    (Heavy Sigh)

    Yadirt....I mean Yadirf...ear-tickling-I thought that was fornication until I went to college and learned how to think.

    No, it's by no means a phrase exclusive to the JWs. I've heard it mentioned by other so-called "ministers" of Christendom many a time before, as I surfed the religious channels on TV.

    Why are you surfing religious channels on TV? Seems like something the elders in your hall might be interested in....exposing yourself to Christendom and all. I am thinking you could be stumbled. (I bow my head to your superiority now, being a weaker vessel I know it is not my place to be speaking to a Brother, however, I am trying to save you!)

    Do you count your time here on your monthly service time sheet? I am guessing you do and feel quite righteous for doing so. However, you need to realize, we are here to get you! That's right!! You could be stumbled here and not even realize it! That is our agenda. You are already one foot in the have posted over 1400 times and alone speaks volumns. Will you come back when you are DFd for hanging on apostate websites?

    You know we will not shun you...your family and friends will, however, your spiritual brothers and sisters (us, in case it is not clear) will not.

  • Yadirf


    And thanks to you too Friday, for bringing this website to my attention.

    I'm really surprised that I was aware of his site but an *apostate* wasn't. What gives? Well, anyway, consider yourself having received undeserved kindness.


  • Yadirf


    So, Ray has company here does he:

    Why shouldn't Ray have doubts? There isn't a single scripture
    even in the New World translation that says that the earth
    will exist forever - only 'time indefinite'.

    Will the earth really last forever? It's really ludicrous to believe otherwise. Do you really even need a scripture which would tell you that it will in order for you to know for certain that earth will be here forever? Why would the thought of the earth coming to an end ever come to mind anyway? Shouldn't earth's eternity be taken for granted? Man is really too small to be questioning the longivity of something so huge as the EARTH, don't you think? Generations upon generations have passed and yet the earth still stands. Why question whether or not it will keep standing yet?


    Edited in order to make "to" into a "too" (for fear of Francois catching me having spelled the word wrongly).


    Edited by - Yadirf on 14 August 2002 18:53:10

  • Reborn2002


    I suppose you were not content to troll on another thread. Found here:

    It appears once your Watchtower-apologist viewpoints and claims were successfully rebutted, you had to go elsewhere to attempt to garner attention.

    I tire of liars and manipulators like you who attempt to twist the facts to serve the Jehovah's Witness agenda.

    You state in this thread:

    You're simply resentful over the fact that you finally became so infatuated with the world that you no longer could remain loyal to God's righteous requirements whereas the Brothers you left behind are still out there faithfully doing what they know is right.

    I suppose faithfully doing what is right includes harboring child molesters to protect the image and reputation of a book-publishing company that administers a "two-witness" rule when anyone with common sense knows damn well that a child molester is not going to commit his heinous crimes against a victim while others simply sit and watch and are entertained.

    I suppose faithfully doing what is right included vacillating on a blood doctrine time and again, resulting in the deaths of countless individuals, CHILDREN included, who were deceived by the ever-changing rules created by the Watchtower Society.

    I suppose faithfully doing what is right is to profess that the Watchtower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses are God's sole collective channel, prophet, only true organization, and mouthpiece on earth, yet continue to contradict themselves in their own literature and doctrine.

    References for this? I suggest you read your own WT literature:

    *** Watchtower 1964 May 1 p.277-8 Building a Firm Foundation in Christ ***

    8 God's Word is the basis of our faith. As we pore over its pages our mind is communing with God's. Our faith is established and strengthened. We are "always ready to make a defense" by offering "a reason for the hope" that we hold, and we are thereby equipped to teach others the way of life. (1 Pet. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:2) Why, though, is such emphasis placed on "accurate" knowledge? Why should such care be exercised in our study of the columns of The Watchtower , and of our application of the Scripture texts to the material under consideration? It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people, and it requires careful study and attention to details in order to apply this information, to get a full understanding of the principles involved, and to assure ourselves of right thinking on these matters. It is in this way that we "are thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones" the fullness of our commission and of the preaching responsibility that Jehovah has placed on all Christians as footstep followers of his Son. Any other course would produce independent thinking and cause division. "Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (1 Cor. 1:10) If all who are associated in the Christian organization have the mind of God and of Christ there will be unity and all will be built up in maturity of understanding.

    *** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***

    This strengthening of theocratic controls continued over a period of twenty years, from 1918 to 1938, and corresponds to the twenty-year building program of Solomon, in which time he completed Jehovah's temple, his own house, the porch of judgment and the House of the Forest of Lebanon or the armory. In 1938 Jehovah revealed this correspondency to his servants and it was published in The Watchtower in a two-part article entitled "Organization." This appeared in the issues of June 1 and 15 and proved conclusively that Jehovah's organization must henceforth be guided and directed by Jehovah's spirit through the visible governing body made up of those servants whom Jehovah himself would appoint. The concluding paragraph in this series stated: "Jehovah's theocratic government is now in full control of the people of God."

    *** Watchtower 1967 October 1 p.590 Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization ***

    Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.

    *** Watchtower 1981 December 1 p.27 The Path of the Righteous Does Keep Getting Brighter ***

    Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit-anointed ones ... Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do.

    *** Watchtower 1983 February 15 p.12 You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth-But How? ***

    A third requirement is that we be associated with God's channel, his organization. ... Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it.

    *** Watchtower 1967 October 1 p.587 Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization ***

    Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind.

    *** You Can live Forever (1982, 1990) p.255 ***

    Do not conclude that there are different roads, or ways, that you can follow to gain life in God's new system. There is only one. There was just one ark that survived the Flood, not a number of boats. And there will be only one organization --God's visible organization -- that will survive the fast-approaching "great tribulation." It is simply not true that all religions lead to the same goal... You must be part of Jehovah's organization , doing God's will, in order to receive his blessing of everlasting life...

    *** Watchtower 1959 January 15 pp.39-41 Down with the Old-Up with the New! ***

    ... but, Who will be Jehovah's prophet to the nations , to speak to them everything that He should command? Who will be the modern Jeremiah? ... So who will prophesy with his message in this time of the end of the nations of this world? ... How was the question answered? ... The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah's witnesses have been and are God's prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world's end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God's foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet?

    14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. ... It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths...

    *** Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' ***

    This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women . It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses ... Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record .

    So yes, allow us to review the record.

    Apparently God's self professed sole collective channel, prophet, only true organization, and mouthpiece on earth either just misinterpret the message God gives them, or God himself conveniently changes his mind on matters, even if it results in the death of innocent people.

    Let us look at the Watchtower's interpretation of how the subject of Organ Transplants are to be handled.

    *** Watchtower 1967 November 15 pp.702-4 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions from Readers

    Is there any Scriptural objection to donating one's body for use in medical research or to accepting organs for transplant from such a source?-W. L., U.S.A.

    A number of issues are involved in this matter, including the propriety of organ transplants and autopsies. Quite often human emotion is the only factor considered when individuals decide these matters. It would be good, though, for Christians to consider the Scriptural principles that apply, and then make decisions in harmony with these principles so as to be pleasing to Jehovah.-Acts 24:16.

    First, it would be well to have in mind that organ transplant operations, such as are now being performed in an attempt to repair the body or extend a life-span, were not the custom thousands of years ago, so we cannot expect to find legislation in the Bible on transplanting human organs. Yet, this does not mean that we have no indication of God's view of such matters.

    When Jehovah for the first time allowed humans to eat animal flesh, he explained matters this way to Noah: "A fear of you and a terror of you will continue upon every living creature of the earth and upon every flying creature of the heavens, upon everything that goes moving on the ground, and upon all the fishes of the sea. Into your hand they are now given. Every moving animal that is alive may serve as food for you. As in the case of green vegetation, I do give it all to you. Only flesh with its soul-its blood-you must not eat." (Gen. 9:2-4) That allowance was made to Noah, from whom every person now alive descended. Hence, it applies to all of us.

    Humans were allowed by God to eat animal flesh and to sustain their human lives by taking the lives of animals, though they were not permitted to eat blood. Did this include eating human flesh, sustaining one's life by means of the body or part of the body of another human, alive or dead? No! That would be cannibalism, a practice abhorrent to all civilized people. Jehovah clearly made a distinction between the lives of animals and the lives of humans, mankind being created in God's image, with his qualities. (Gen. 1:27) This distinction is evident in His next words. God proceeded to show that man's life is sacred and is not to be taken at will, as may be done with the animals to be used for food. To show disrespect for the sanctity of human life would make one liable to have his own life taken.-Gen. 9:5, 6.

    When there is a diseased or defective organ, the usual way health is restored is by taking in nutrients. The body uses the food eaten to repair or heal the organ, gradually replacing the cells. When men of science conclude that this normal process will no longer work and they suggest removing the organ and replacing it directly with an organ from another human, this is simply a shortcut. Those who submit to such operations are thus living off the flesh of another human. That is cannibalistic . However, in allowing man to eat animal flesh Jehovah God did not grant permission for humans to try to perpetuate their lives by cannibalistically taking into their bodies human flesh, whether chewed or in the form of whole organs or body parts taken from others. ...

    Modern science has developed many different types of operations that involve human body parts, some common and usually successful and others experimental and often unsuccessful. It is not our place to decide whether such operations are advisable or warranted from a scientific or medical standpoint. It would be well, though, for Christians faced With a decision in this regard to consider the indication as to God's viewpoint presented in the Scriptures. -Eph. 5:10. ...

    It should be evident from this discussion that Christians who have been enlightened by God's Word do not need to make these decisions simply on the basis of personal whim or emotion. They can consider the divine principles recorded in the Scriptures and use these in making personal decisions as they look to God for direction, trusting him and putting their confidence in the future that he has in store for those who love him.-Prov. 3:5, 6; Ps. 119:105.

    *** Awake! 1968 June 8 p.21 ***
    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    There are those, such as the Christian witnesses of Jehovah, who consider all transplants between humans as cannibalism ...

    Yet, 13 years later they change their minds, stating:

    *** Watchtower 1980 March 15 p.31 Questions from Readers ***

    Questions from Readers

    Should congregation action be taken if a baptized Christian accepts a human organ transplant, such as of a cornea or a kidney?

    Regarding the transplantation of human tissue or bone from one human to another, this is a matter for conscientious decision by each one of Jehovah's Witnesses . ....

    Clearly, personal views and conscientious feelings vary on this issue of transplantation. It is well known that the use of human materials for human consumption varies all the way from minor items, such as hormones and corneas, to major organs, such as kidneys and hearts. While the Bible specifically forbids consuming blood, there is no Biblical command pointedly forbidding the taking in of other human tissue.For this reason, each individual faced with making a decision on this matter should carefully and prayerfully weigh matters and then decide conscientiously what he or she could or could not do before God. It is a matter for personal decision. (Gal. 6:5) The congregation judicial committee would not take disciplinary action if someone accepted an organ transplant.

    Or how about when God's sole collective channel and prophet on earth has shown by their actions to be a false prophet? I suppose faithfully doing what is right is encouraging people to sell their homes and live as paupers, or to forego higher education because the end is so near! In the below quotes we see the Watchtower Society proclaiming the end would come in only a short period of time, and this was almost 40 years ago.

    Let us review some examples.

    *** Watchtower 1966 October 15 pp.628-9 Rejoicing over "God's Sons of Liberty" Spiritual Feast ***

    Only a liberated people can preach a release to captives, conventioners were told in the speech "Preach a Release to the Captives," which thrilled them with its hopeful outlook. "Jehovah, the God of freedom and liberty, has freed his people from Babylonish bondage and has given them a work of liberation to do. That work of liberation and salvation must go on to the finish! To give aid today in this critical time to prospective sons of God," announced President Knorr, "a new book in English, entitled 'Life Everlasting-in Freedom of the Sons of God,' has been published." At all assembly points where it was released, the book was received enthusiastically. Crowds gathered around stands and soon supplies of the book were depleted. Immediately its contents were examined. It did not take the brothers very long to find the chart beginning on page 31, showing that 6,000 years of man's existence end in 1975. Discussion of 1975 overshadowed about everything else. "The new book compels us to realize that Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed ," said a conventioner. Surely it was one of the outstanding blessings to be carried home!

    *** Awake! October 8 1966 pp.19-20 ***
    [Note: not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    'How Much Longer Will It Be?'

    6,000 Years Completed in 1975 .. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end? The year 1975 .. Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance. Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. From the most reliable investigations of Bible chronology, harmonizing with many accepted dates of secular history , we find that Adam was created in the autumn of the year 4026 B.C.E. Sometime in that same year Eve could well have been created , directly after which God's rest day commenced .. There is another chronological indication that we are rapidly nearing the closing time for this wicked system of things. It is the fact that shortly, according to reliable Bible chronology, 6,000 years of human history will come to an end.. After six thousand years of toil and bondage to sin, sickness, death and Satan, mankind is due to enjoy a rest and is in dire need of a rest. (Heb. 4:1-11) Hence, the fact that we are nearing the end of the first 6,000 years of man's existence is of great significance.. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of God's rest day come to an end?The year 1975. This is worthy of notice, particularly in view of the fact that the 'last days' began in 1914, and that the physical facts of our day in fulfillment of prophecy mark this as the last generation of this wicked world. So we can expect the immediate future to be filled with thrilling events for those who rest their faith in God and his promises. It means that within relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the 'time of the end.'

    *** Watchtower 1968 August 15 p.499 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975? ***

    30 Are we to assume from this study that the battle of Armageddon will be all over by the autumn of 1975, and the long-looked-for thousand-year reign of Christ will begin by then? Possibly, but we wait to see how closely the seventh thousand-year period of man's existence coincides with the sabbathlike thousand-year reign of Christ. If these two periods run parallel with each other as to the calendar year, it will not be by mere chance or accident but will be according to Jehovah's loving and timely purposes. Our chronology, however, which is reasonably accurate (but admittedly not infallible), at the best only points to the autumn of 1975 as the end of 6,000 years of man's existence on earth. It does not necessarily mean that 1975 marks the end of the first 6,000 years of Jehovah's seventh creative "day." Why not? Because after his creation Adam lived some time during the "sixth day," which unknown amount of time would need to be subtracted from Adam's 930 years, to determine when the sixth seven-thousand-year period or "day" ended, and how long Adam lived into the "seventh day." And yet the end of that sixth creative "day" could end within the same Gregorian calendar year of Adam's creation. It may involve only a difference of weeks or months, not years.

    *** Kingdom Ministry May 1974 p.3 How Are You Using Your Life? ***

    Yes, the end of this system is so very near! Is that not reason to increase our activity? In this regard we can learn something from a runner who puts on a final burst of speed near the finish of a race . Look at Jesus, who apparently stepped up his activity during his final days on earth. In fact, over 27 percent of the material in the Gospels is devoted to just the last week of Jesus' earthly ministry!-Matt. 21:1-27:50; Mark 11:1-15:37; Luke 19:29-23:46; John 11:55-19:30.

    By carefully and prayerfully examining our own circumstances, we also may find that we can spend more time and energy in preaching during this final period before the present system ends. Many of our brothers and sisters are doing just that. This is evident from the rapidly increasing number of pioneers.

    Yes, since the summer of 1973 there have been new peaks in pioneers every month. Now there are 20,394 regular and special pioneers in the United States, an all-time peak. That is 5,190 more than there were in February 1973! A 34-percent increase! Does that not warm our hearts? Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end. -1 John 2:17.

    I suppose faithfully doing what is right includes defending a FALSE PROPHET, MURDEROUS organization that LIES.

    Find somewhere else to spew your nonsense.

    Edited by - Reborn2002 on 14 August 2002 19:22:1

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