A classic case of WT dishonesty.

by caspian 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    Don't you think that they could just as easily have left the Tetragrammaton in (just leaving it untranslated) instead of mistranslating it as "LORD", thereby making it clear to the reader that the 4 untranslated letters represent God's name in Hebrew? Instead you give them a pat on the back for going it in an illogical way.

    Couldn't the translators of the NWT have left Kyrios untranslated or translated it as "LORD" (in capital letters to distinguish from when itr's referring to Jesus, although that's a whole other can of worms) rather than mistranslating it as Jehovah?

    I can't understand your double standard in this matter, Yadirf. I'm inclined to agree with you that the Tetragrammaton should be left as YHWH (not JHVH, there's no J sound in Hebrew) or as Yahweh, or even possibly Jehovah, as has been traditional since the middle ages, although the arguments presented for using "LORD" in capitals are not unreasonable. But when the word used in the original language can only be translated as "lord" there is no justification for doing otherwise.

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate

    You don't know that for sure! Tell us what his real name is for sure, if you think you can.

    I believe YHWH of the OT who spoke and dealt with men is Jesus Christ of the NT. So, when Jesus life was extinguished in heaven, the being who was YHWH became Jesus Christ the man by way of Father.

    I also believe YHWH Son, then became Jesus Christ, then became "New Name" (See Revelation).

    We don't know the true pronunciation of the first name he had, and we don't know the name of the new name he has now, but we do know the name that he had when he was just like us and THAT NAME has been given the chosen for salvation:

    Acts 4:10-12
    It is by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified but whom God raised from the dead, that this man stands before you healed. 11 He is "'the stone you builders rejected,
    which has become the capstone.'

    12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

    Jesus human "name" supecedes his YHWH name as the name for salvation for man.

    I don't know how to pronounce YHWH nor does anyone else, I don't know His new name either, BUT...

    I can utter JESUS CHRIST till the sheep come home.

    God's name? Guess.

    JESUS SAID:

    John 5:46
    46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about ME.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Derek,

    the Greek Text needs reworking,
    It needs reworking? But isn't it the inspired word of God? How can it need reworking, and what gives anyone the right to rework it and call himself a translator? The earliest extant manuscripts of the Christian Greek Scriptures do not contain any form of the divine name. None of them! Anywhere! Surely if God had wanted it there, it would be there.

    You're showing your ignorance, Derek.

    .

  • funkyderek
    funkyderek
    You're showing your ignorance, Derek.

    That's the second time you've done that in this thread, Yadirf. You've been forced into a corner, so you don't even bother to answer the argument, you just dismiss whoever made the point as "ignorant" or " a hopeless case".

    OK, so I'm ignorant. Enlighten me. Why is it unacceptable to change the Hebrew text but perfectly acceptable to change the Greek text?

  • julien
    julien
    ... the Greek Text needs reworking ...

    Translator A: This text doesn't support our theology
    Translator B: Obviously it needs reworking

    That statement of yours has got to take 1st place in a contest of stupidest things said. "LORD" is a title for God, not his name. "LORD" speaks of what he is, not who he is.

    On the contrary, your statement here takes that prize. A name is just a sound, it carries no meaning other than to identify a person. By itself the identity is useless; WHO a person is involves more than just the sound you make to identify them.

    Some guy comes along and says "I need to see all your financial records." You say "Who the hell are you." Which answer carries more meaning:
    "Bob Smith"
    "I'm your IRS auditor".

    Clearly "Bob Smith" is meaningless. Or let's say you are at visiting a friend and are at lunch and you notice everyone whispering about someone at another table. You ask your companion "Who is that?" Which answer gives actual information?

    "It's Mike Jones"
    "It's the Mayor"

    And how about this rebuttal folks:

    You're showing your ignorance, Derek.

    WOW! That seems like it would work for every argument! Don't have an answer?? Just spout "YER IGNORANT."

    Talk about brain dead.

    Edited by - Julien on 15 August 2002 16:59:46

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Derek,

    You're showing your ignorance, Derek.

    That's the second time you've done that in this thread, Yadirf. You've been forced into a corner, so you don't even bother to answer the argument, you just dismiss whoever made the point as "ignorant" or " a hopeless case".

    What I said is a fact. You're ignorance is INDEED showing. You should know the answers to the very questions that you're asking. You're merely drilling me to find out whether or not I can answer them.

    Don't you think that they could just as easily have left the Tetragrammaton in (just leaving it untranslated) instead of mistranslating it as "LORD", thereby making it clear to the reader that the 4 untranslated letters represent God's name in Hebrew? Instead you give them a pat on the back for going it in an illogical way.

    Couldn't the translators of the NWT have left Kyrios untranslated or translated it as "LORD" (in capital letters to distinguish from when itr's referring to Jesus, although that's a whole other can of worms) rather than mistranslating it as Jehovah?

    The two cases are not as similar as you would prefer to make it out to be, Derek. Why leave untranslated a word, namely God's name, in a Greek text that is known to be a direct quotation out of the Hebrew Scriptures which leaves no question as to what word belonged there in the Greek in first place?

    I can't understand your double standard in this matter, Yadirf.

    It's unfortunate that you perceive a "double standard" with me, because that's really not the case at all.

    I'm inclined to agree with you that the Tetragrammaton should be left as YHWH (not JHVH, there's no J sound in Hebrew)

    That's true, but you have homework to do Derek.

    the arguments presented for using "LORD" in capitals are not unreasonable.

    Yes those arguments are indeed unreasonable, you're simply listening with a prejudiced ear I believe.

    But when the word used in the original language can only be translated as "lord" there is no justification for doing otherwise.

    Have you not read You Know's explanation regarding the justification for the particular vowels used in the name "Jehovah" when translating the Tetragrammaton? Until you have, you shouldn't be saying that it "can only be translated as lord." Too, insofar as "no justification for doing otherwise," there was always the option of leaving it UNtranslated.

    You have a sharp mind, Derek, it's a shame you're not willing to use it wisely.

    Friday

    .

  • pomegranate
    pomegranate
    Have you not read You Know's explanation regarding the justification for the particular vowels used in the name "Jehovah" when translating the Tetragrammaton?

    If the vowel choice isn't from God, then the vowel choice is not justified at all.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    You've just demonstrated you're ignorant, Julien.

    Friday

    .

    Edited by - Yadirf on 15 August 2002 17:30:36

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Pomegranate, you are fruity. You exhibit no evidence of being able to see beyond the end of your little pointed nose.

    Friday

    .

  • julien
    julien

    I can just imagine if this discussion were taking place in person, Yadirf would be surrounded by a circle of people. They would be going around the circle thusly:

    Derek: explain blah blah blah, because otherwise blah blah blah
    Yadirf: That is just plain stupid
    Pomegranite: Yeah but what about this point?
    Yadirf: YOU ARE FRUITY SIR!!
    Julien: What a lame argument to say " That is just plain stupid"
    Yadirf: You are just plain stupid Julien!
    Derek: answer our questions
    Yadirf: You know the answers [Ed.note: he means Yadirf's answers], you are just trying to see if I will answer them or not.
    All of you are either ignorant or prejudiced, thus I will not address any arguments, especially fruity or ignorant ones.

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