Scripture to Back Beliefs (page 3)

minimus

SECRET JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES....please elaborate.

Sirona

Hi Gritsgrl

Welcome to the forum!!

Check out my thread, JWs CAN celebrate Christmas! at http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=16572&site=3

This shows a Watchtower article which actually says that pagan decorations are OK as long as noone knows they're pagan! Its just another example of the double standards found within JW "rules".

Scripturally, they have no basis for many of their rules. Mostly they say that anything that has previously been pagan is wrong. Therefore they will go so far as to never say "cheers" or "bless you" because they think it has pagan roots. Someone (mikemusto I think) did point out that JWs do allow wedding rings and anniversaries which are also pagan. Plus they follow our calendar in daily life (pagan) and are not averse to pagan marriage practices such as white dresses and flowers and carrying over the threshhold.

jgnat made a good point - Just because something isn't in the bible doesn't mean its wrong. Also, just because the two mentions of birthdays in the bible were of those who did bad things, that does not mean that birthdays themselves are wrong. The bible was condemning the action of the individual on their birthday, not the birthday itself.

You might want to point out that Jesus condemned the scribes and pharisees for making rules for people that were beyond scripture. Then state rules that they have that have no scriptural basis.

Sirona

BugParadise

Gritsgirl: We know that war is not what God wants, however, we need scripture to back defending our country and protecting our loved ones. I've been reading and can't come up with really good verses.

Here are a few I believe that pertains to this:

Luke 22:36: Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

Romans 13:1-4 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Joel 3:9,10 Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords , and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong.

One more thing

"Thou Shalt Not Kill" Ex. 20:13

Hebraic Insight...

The Jewish sages note that the word "ratsakh" applies only to illegal killing (e.g., premeditated murder or manslaughter) and is never used in the administration of justice or for killing in war. Hence the KJV translation as "thou shalt not kill" is too broad.

~Bugs

Gritsgirl

I apologize for not making my statement clear. They are not secret JWs. While they were being indoctrinated or whatever they call it, they kept their meetings secret and what they did was not discussed. By time my husband found out and went over with his Bible to talk "sense into them". They had the JW Bible and some sort of encyclopedia thing on disc on their computer and they came up with an answer to everything my husband said to them.

Gritsgirl

Wow! This is great. Thanks a bunch for your knowledge and reply. I really feel that I need to nicely put our friends in their place before they critize my son to his face. We are proud of his choice of entering the military.

funkyderek

Gritsgirl, I don't have much info on the Watchtower's 100th birthday bash. I don't have access to much Watchtower stuff at the moment, but I remember they definitely celebrated somethig. A special issue of one or both of the magazines anyway. Perhaps someone with the CD or bound volumes can check.

Bleep

JW's do not celebrate birthdays. All I can think of is Wedding Annivereries and Christ' death for our sins.

To answer your question of anything in the Bible that supports nationalism, I have found no information that supports your question.

Other than paying taxes the Bible says this about human efforts, "Acceptance of the Nation-State as a legitimate source of authority led to nationalism. The New Encyclopaedia Britannica states: "Nationalism is often thought to be very old; sometimes it is mistakenly regarded as a permanent factor in political behaviour. Actually, the American and French revolutions may be regarded as its first powerful manifestations." Since those revolutions, nationalism has swept across the Americas, Europe, Africa, and Asia. Vicious wars have been legitimized in the name of nationalism.

British historian Arnold Toynbee wrote: "The spirit of Nationality is a sour ferment of the new wine of Democracy in the old bottles of Tribalism. . . . This strange compromise between Democracy and Tribalism has been far more potent in the practical politics of our modern Western World than Democracy itself." Nationalism has not produced a peaceful world. Toynbee said: "The Wars of Religion have been followed, after the briefest respite, by the Wars of Nationality; and in our modern Western World the spirit of religious fanaticism and the spirit of national fanaticism are manifestly one and the same evil passion."

By means of the myths of "sacred kingship," "divine right of kings," "popular sovereignty," and "national sovereignty," rulers have attempted to legitimize their authority over fellow humans. After considering the record of human rulers, however, a Christian cannot but share the thought expressed by Solomon: "Man has dominated man to his injury."-Ecclesiastes 8:9.

Rather than worship the political State, Christians worship God and recognize in him the legitimate source of all authority. They agree with the psalmist David who said: "Yours, Yahweh, is the greatness, the power, the splendour, length of days and glory, everything in heaven and on earth is yours. Yours is the sovereignty, Yahweh; you are exalted, supreme over all." (1 Chronicles 29:11, The New Jerusalem Bible) Yet, out of deference to God, they show proper respect for authority in both the secular and the spiritual fields. Just how and why they can do this joyfully will be examined in the two articles that follow."

The Catholic Encyclopedia states: "This 'divine right of kings' (very different from the doctrine that all authority, whether of king or of republic, is from God), has never been sanctioned by the Catholic Church. At the Reformation it assumed a form exceedingly hostile to Catholicism, monarchs like Henry VIII, and James I, of England, claiming the fullness of spiritual as well as of civil authority."

funkyderek

Other than paying taxes the Bible says this about human efforts, "Acceptance of the Nation-State as a legitimate source of authority led to nationalism.

Where does the Bible say that, Bleep?

larc

The Jews of the Old Testament certainly supported nationalism. They were especially fond of slaughtering other nations, sometimes, every man, woman, and child - see the book of Joshua.

BugParadise

Larc: The Jews of the Old Testament certainly supported nationalism. They were especially fond of slaughtering other nations, sometimes, every man, woman, and child - see the book of Joshua.

They sure did! That is exactly what I was thinking as I read his post. They even had their own banners and flags for each tribe. Most of their wars were fought over a prime piece of real estate and sanctioned/ordered by God.

Scripture to Back Beliefs

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