North And South.

by Englishman 25 Replies latest social entertainment

  • Englishman

    Having finally accepted that the United Kingdom is not the centre of the Universe - I know, it hurts, it hurts - I have been boning up on some American history for a change.

    First off, I have been watching a series on Sky that deals with the American Civil War. Wow, what an amazingly complicated conflict that was. I was astonished to learn that the the UK was about to switch it's allegience fron the North to the South purely for trade purposes so as to keep it's cotton mills spinning.

    Secondly, I have been swotting through my encyclopaedia's for more information about this conflict. It is however, very limited in it's scope, and doesn't tell me much.

    So, can anyone give me some recommended reading about all this?

    Also, does this conflict still affect the lives of Americans in the present day? Is say, a Kentuckian a Kentuckian first or a US citizen first? (I was going to say Texan, but I always think of Texas first for some reason) I'm just trying to get some insights here, so any info would be appreciated, either here or via email.

    Many Thanks,


  • ConnieLynn


    The History of the Civil War by James Ford Rhodes is great book that is very unbiased. I would recommend it.

    I was raised in Tennessee, and my family is all from the south. My father pointed out that after 198 years, I was the first member of our family to move North of the Mason Dixon line. I think the North/South issue depends on the family. My fathers family was active in the Civil war, so it was kept alive for generations. Being a southerner living in the Northwest is irrelevent, but I do hang on to a lot of my southern roots. I eat grits and cornbread and collard greens and say ya'll. I don't feel any animosity toward any Northern folks and I have never felt any against me because I'm southern. Of course, I can't speak for everyone. I know there is still a lot of prejudice in the south, more than a lot of areas in the United States.

  • jst2laws

    Hello my Pub companion Eman,

    I hope you are not up too late there ignoring you beautiful family. I can just imagine you sitting in front of your computer with an encyclopedia in your lap.

    does this conflict still affect the lives of Americans in the present day? Is say, a Kentuckian a Kentuckian first or a US citizen first? (I was going to say Texan, but I always think of Texas first for some reason)

    To some extent it still influences lives, mostly in the South. There is a lot of Southern Pride along with flying of the Dixie flag to the chagrin of many. You may remember there was talk of boycotting the Atlanta Olympics because the flag of Georgia still incorporates the Confederate Flag. This is very offensive to liberals and blacks as well as some conservatives. The white south argues that the Confederate flag simply commemorates the sacrifice of the men who died in the war. To the Blacks, north and south, it reminds them of bigotry and the atrocities committed.

    As to loyalty, when something like 9/11 happens the issues of the past are put aside and they think America first.

    If you would like any more information let me know. PAPA Smurf is whispering in my ear and he knows everything. Jst2laws

  • Robdar


    Yes there are still some problems between the North and the South. The North still thinks that Southerners all have outdoor plumbing and still hate blacks.

    I have never seen as much prejudice towards blacks in the South as I have witnessed since I moved North.

  • WildHorses

    Englishman, here is a site you can look at to learn more about the Civil War. I love watching movies about that time but I tend to get pissed off at how they treated the slaves, so I prefer reading about it instead.

  • Thirdson


    You should call my son and get his input. At age 9 he argued (and very well) with my immigration attorney an Atlanta GA, native on the subject of who treated prisoners of war the worst. He had read every book in his school library on the subject in addition to the large collection of books he owns.

    Today, at age 14 he is a little embarassed to admit to his extensive knowledge and has gotten past the nickname of "civil war boy" he acquired at school. We no longer have to warn him about bringing the subject up when we have visitors. I have to admit that I tuned out to most of what he would relate because of the overload. It was only when I heard him discuss the subject with knowledgeable people that I realized exactly how much he knew.


    P.S. We watched Lawrence of Arabia this evening together. This was his first viewing of the film and he had booked the TV this evening especially to watch this. C. certainly has an unusual interest in history.


    As a native Texan, I can say that there is still a great deal of prejudice here - not only to African-Americans and other minorities, but also to Northerners. Lots of trucks around here have a gun rack, NRA sticker (National Rifle Association), Confederate flag, and a bumper sticker saying "Yankees, Go Home!"

    True story: On Juneteenth (June 19 is African-American Emancipation Day), one of my neighbors drives his truck around town with a 4' by 8' Confederate flag waving out the back.

    I'm fortunate to live in Austin, Texas - the most liberal city in the state. If it weren't for Austin, I'd be in Colorado.


  • LB

    I've read dozens of books but none come to mind of course. The History channel has a very interesting series on the civil war. When the UK backed out it spelled the end of the south as they knew it. I'm sure they would have at the very least been able to secede from the union without farther problems had England showed up as promised. Many southerners are still upset.

    Brother against brother,a horrible time for this country. Imagine familes being split down the middle during this war.

    We Americans tend to make it a war about slavery, but it doesn't take much research to see that slavery was not why we went to war. Trust me, slavery must have been a horrible thing, but, it was fought over economic reasons. I mean cut ties with England over what? Taxes primarily? Well, this is what this war was basically fought over. The south felt screwed and was screwed.

    Big Brother always wins.

    Edited by - LB on 11 August 2002 1:12:8

  • WildHorses

    LB, the war had to do with Cotton, didn't it?

  • Tammie

    Yes, I got a full education of both sides view point of the civil war. My mother is from Wisconsin, and my daddy was from the south. (Texas and Oklahoma) I had also went to school all over this country. Every state has it's own version on the reasons for the war. And actually my family of that time was fighting each other. (cousin) General Grant was on my mothers side, and (Uncle) John Wilks Booth was on my father's side. That's the black sheep of the family. Plus a number of other military personal. Which many was either killed or wounded. As far as which military prisioners that was treated the worse, was the Union militiary. Has a couple of great Uncles (can't recall right at the moment how many greats ago) who died at Andersonville Military Prision.

    I'm sorry to say but as recent as my own daddy, there is a strong dislike for those of the north. Don't ask me why he married some one from there. Me personally, I feel that is some very old history and time to move on.

    Edited by - Tammie on 11 August 2002 1:25:36

    Edited by - Tammie on 11 August 2002 1:29:21

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