Exposing the JW's core belief: TRY THIS

MegaDude

Last November the elders paid me a visit. They invited back into the fold of the JWs. Anyway, we ended up having an interesting discussion that lasted about an hour and a half. And then I used my usual method to make a point without being overly direct. I wanted to show them that they were loyal to an organization even over truth. The conversation went like this:

DUDE: I believe you should put the truth first no matter what. Don't you believe that?

(ELDER BEAMS HAPPILY!)

ELDER: Yes! It's the truth we have to put first. That's right!

DUDE: But I sometimes found in the JWs that that didn't always happen. Let me show you what I mean. Let's say you believed the blood issue was completely wrong the way the Society taught it. And let's say you knew --

ELDER: But we believe abstaining from blood is correct!

DUDE: I know you do. But this is a fair question. The Society has reversed itself a number of times on medical issues and we don't know what they will change in the future. So I want to ask you what you would do in this situation.

ELDER: Okay.

DUDE: If you knew...I mean, you knew absolutely that the blood doctrine was completely false, and you were sure it was false, as sure as you are that God's name is Jehovah, and you were as sure it was wrong as sure as you are Jesus is the son of God, and you had a brother or sister in the congregation who was going to die without a blood transfusion, or it was someone in your own family that was dying, would you tell that person what you knew was the truth, or would you keep supporting the Society's viewpoint, even though you knew it was wrong?

VERY AWKWARD PAUSE

ELDERS BEGIN TO LOOK EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE

FINALLY....

ELDER: Well.....Jerry......I.....would.....hope -- I....would.....hope that I could continue to show appreciation.....for.....being....in....Jehovah's organization and stay loyal to it.

DUDE: So you would let that brother or sister die, and you would keep silent?

ELDER: Well.....I....would.....hope......that....I.... that I could maintain my loyalty to Jehovah and support his organization.

DUDE: Even if that brother or sister died needlessly?

ELDER: Well....um.....yes......

ELDER'S EXPRESSION IS ONE OF CONFUSION AND FEAR

ELDER: Yes. I think so. Yes. Because Jehovah could ressurect that person.

At this point they were practically speechless. They wanted to leave and I didn't try to keep them at my doorstep anymore. They mentioned something about coming back next year to invite me back.

I have asked the above scenario to a number of JWs: Pioneers, elders, Bethelite, and one of the annointed. They have always consistently answed if they knew the blood issue was completely wrong, they would support it even at the cost of a death of a family member, a dear friend in the congregation. The usual answer I get is, "I would have to support it, because this is Jehovah's organization."

So there you have it. The core belief of Jehovah's Witnesses is exactly what the leadership wants: LOYALTY TO THE WATCHTOWER LEADERSHIP AT *ALL* COSTS, EVEN IF THEY ARE WRONG, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOUR LIFE, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOUR FAMILY'S LIFE, EVEN IF IT MEANS YOUR FRIENDS' LIFE.

Try this simple question test on the next set of elders that visit you. You'll see what I mean. I haven't met one JW yet that answered differently.

Edited by - megadude on 9 August 2002 19:38:29

TR

Dude,

Yes, when it comes to supporting org, it's org all the way. I have met a few 'hovah individuals that said they would risk being df'd because they believe that those that made the mistake would themselves be df'd, so that they could be reinstated! Oh happy day!

TR

Farkel

Many of us have been saying that very same thing for years, megadude: The most important core belief of Jehovah's Witnesses IS that the Governing Body speaks for God. Nothing else is more important or more significant in JW life than that.

Can you gues WHO it was who came up with the core belief that the Governing Body speaks for God and WHO enforces that belief on members at any cost?

Hint: it ain't the local Elders.

Hint #2: see "Circular Reasoning From the Scriptures"

Farkel

Xena

I'm not allowed to discuss religion with my JW family anymore....they forbade me cause last time when I was there I told them their resurection hope was a myth concocted by a group of old men in New York....that seemed to upset them for some reason...

MegaDude

lol xena

I remember when I used that approach. JWs ran screaming away from me.

Pretend you need their spiritual help next time. That works much better.

Say something like:

"I just can't get this blood issue straight in my head. Now here in this article the Society says all blood that leaves a body, human or animal, should be poured out on the ground. But yet they teach it's okay to take blood fractions made from huge amounts of donated blood? That's not pouring it out on the ground......"

Well, you get the idea. You play the part of the earnest lost sheep with questions, and feed them question after question of damaging evidence. The JW will leap at the opportunity to help and correct you. In a short time you can feed them a large amount of information in the form of questions that may open their eyes down the line. The JW absorbs a lot of it because you are NOT confronting them directly. That helps stop their apostate alarm from going off too soon.

Edited by - megadude on 9 August 2002 20:2:42

Xena

Last time I tried that Mega they wanted to set me up with a "nice" brother (GAG).....I think I like it better being the anti-christ, but thank you for the pointers

HEY you BETTER be there tomorrow nite mega!!!!!

LB

Well put Mega. Now that my son is a father I asked him about blood. I mentioned that I knew he loved his son enough to take a bullet for him. I mentioned that if he gave his son blood, would Jehovah kill his son or him, according to latest rules. He said that he knew he would be the one punished, not his son. Then he told me, don't worry dad, I would take that bullet for my son.

He's the first JW that told me this. I'm starting to think that the elevator is reaching the top floor.

HEY you BETTER be there tomorrow nite mega!!!!!

Xena didn't you see those pics of Mega from the last apostafest? He's the only one smiling more than Billygoat is. I think he'd rather cut off his nads with a spoon than miss that.

Nathan Natas

Yes, megaDude, very well put.

The Witnesses call their belief system "The Truth(tm)" even when it defies observable reality, and they're PROUD of the fact that they let a cloistered cluster flock of self anointed geezers dictate reality to them. We've heard the comment, "If the FDS told me the sky was green, then it is green."

This "truth test' can be applied using any WTS dogma, not just the blood issue.

It is, as Mr. Spock might say, "Fascinating" to watch a DubMind shut down like an alien computer under a logical attack from Captain Kirk.

I can almost see the little Robbie Dub-bot in their head driving in circles saying, "WARNING! WARNING! LOGIC SHOWER! LOGIC SHOWER!"

Edited by - Nathan Natas on 10 August 2002 0:37:8

Solace

The witnesses must be prepared for this question because I asked my uncle how he would feel if the society changed its view on blood after my grandfatherfather, (his father) died refusing a blood transfusion. His response was also, Well, he would be guaranteed a resurrection. I really didnt know what to say. It was so sad that he was willing to dismiss everything, just like that. I believe that most of my family would do anything for the W.T.S.

Edited by - heaven on 9 August 2002 21:26:22

MegaDude

LB,

Point well taken. I think most JWs would say they would "take a bullet" for their kid. My younger JW brother is about to become a father for the first time. I think I will use that line. Because if he has the GUTS to take a bullet for his kid, he should have the GUTS to look at both sides of his religious beliefs.

HEAVEN:

One thing I am sure of. The Watchtower nor the JWs will never apologize nor express remorse for those lives lost due to their blundering blood doctrines.

NATHAN:

You're right that the "truth test" can be demonstrated using ANY WT dogma, but I like using the blood issue because it involves the very life of their own members. Even though the elder said he hoped he would stay loyal to the WT in the proposed hypothetical, he spoke haltingly and seemed very unsure of himself.

XENA:

They tried to set you up with a nice brother? Hmm, was that Brother Tyydyy?

Exposing the JW's core belief: TRY THIS

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